Africa Update: Democracy and Human Rights

MR. BAILY: Good afternoon and welcome to the Foreign Press Center. This afternoon we have a briefing from Assistant Secretary for African Affairs, Ambassador Jendayi Frazer. She will open with a statement and then be happy to take your questions.

Ambassador Frazer is just back from several trips to Africa, which included stops in Liberia and Sudan and also for consultations in China on African issues.

Thank you.

AMBASSADOR FRAZER: Good afternoon to all of you. Thank you. It's a pleasure to meet once again with the foreign press to share some thoughts about the state of democracy and human rights in Africa in the lead-up to International Human Rights Day.

In all the years I've studied and worked on Africa, I believe that this is a time of great opportunity to consolidate the progress and promise of the continent. Democracy in Africa is growing with more than 50 democratic elections in the past four years. In October, the world held its breath waiting to see whether Liberia would be able to hold free and fair elections after so many years of conflict and bloodshed, so much loss of trained personnel and so much damage to its infrastructure.

Liberia's legislative and presidential elections on October 11th were the most free and fair elections in its history, with a high voter turnout and no significant reports of fraud, violence or intimidation. One month later, the presidential run-off election was similarly well run, despite the understandable disappointment and confusion of Mr. Weah's supporters who had smelled victory after his initial first-place showing.

That run-off gave Africa her first democratically elected woman president, Ellen Johnson Sirleaf. Her election marks a genuine milestone in a march of African women towards real political equality but is perhaps less surprising when one considers that of the 50 national legislatures with the greatest number of women, 11 are in Africa. And we are told that of those who have registered for the first elections to be held in the Democratic Republic of the Congo in more than 30 years, 70 percent are women.

Elections have taken place widely over the past 15 years. Power has changed hands in a number of key nations from Senegal to Ghana and from Mozambique to Namibia. We have seen term limits for the presidency introduced in several countries as more open societies begin to turn away from the big man model of government. Military regimes are increasingly anachronistic.

It is true that this progress is by fits and starts and Uganda, which had limited the number of terms a president can serve, has now reconsidered, and Mauritania is ruled by a military junta. But this question of giving the people a real chance to select and to change their leaders is now being freely debated across the length and breadth of Africa. And we salute those like President Kerekou of Benin who have enjoyed power for many years and are willing to step aside to make room for the new voices of a new generation.

Like democracy, respect for internationally recognized human rights has grown tremendously, though unevenly. Extrajudicial killings appear to be diminishing as a means of dealing with criminal elements and political opponents, but the use of arrest and short-term detention, sometimes with beatings to harass opposition figures, is regrettably widespread. Efforts are being made to foster and strengthen an independent judiciary, but Africa's prisons remain places where merely to be confined, is inhumane.

One of the most interesting and volatile areas is what we Americans call our First Amendment rights: freedom of religion, of speech, of association and assembly, and of the press. Africa's tradition of religious tolerance offers hope to some of its neighbors in a greater Middle East, yet in Eritrea we recently saw a crackdown on Evangelical Christians with over 200 members of minority churches arrested. In contrast, in Zambia, more than 10,000 people were able to attend a demonstration for constitutional reform a month ago without incident.

African journalists have recently formed the Society for the Development of Media in Africa and have been struggling consistently to open up more space for independent voices. But our struggle is not without its dangers and we read of a series of attacks on journalists in the Democratic Republic of the Congo this year, most recently the murder of Franck Kangundu of the Kinshasa daily, La Référence, and his wife.

Let me conclude these remarks to talk about children. We congratulate those countries that have enacted strong laws against human trafficking and the worst forms of child labor with stiff penalties for violators. Ghana passed a terrific anti-trafficking law this year, signaling its continued commitment to fight these abuses of human rights. Many other countries have either passed legislation or have bills in the works. We have also seen an increase in those countries that have made primary school education compulsory and those that have either eliminated fees or are working hard to reduce them. Those efforts to allow children the time and opportunity needed to develop their potential will ultimately be the best guarantees of democracy and human rights in Africa's future.

With this brief overview, I would like to turn the floor over to you for your questions. Thank you.

MR. BAILY: And if you could state your name and organization before your question, thank you. Here in the front row.

QUESTION: My name is Yaw Adu Otu, Africanewscast.com. I've heard a lot of emphasis on women coming up in the African political milieu. Why is there emphasis on women? Shouldn't the emphasis be on efficiency and competence?

AMBASSADOR FRAZER: There's no contradiction in emphasizing women, efficiency and competence. (Laughter.) In fact, there should be an emphasis on efficiency and competence, and that's the reason why we need to talk more about women.

QUESTION: (Off-mike.)

MR. BAILY: Microphone, please.

AMBASSADOR FRAZER: The problem isn't that men are less competent, but that women who are very competent have often been neglected and not allowed to be part of the system. And so if we talk about efficiency and competence, in which I would agree with you, we also need to make sure that women who have been denied opportunity, despite their competence, are allowed to have that opportunity today.

MR. BAILY: The second -- in the third row here.

QUESTION: Thank you very much, Dr. Frazer. Speaking about Liberia, you alluded to the election as free and fair and that has been praised by other associates as well. But the problem remain is that the opponent of Mrs. Sirleaf is yet to concede, at least formally. Do you see any potential for outbreak of violence or anything like that? I mean --

AMBASSADOR FRAZER: No, I don't. In fact, immediately when Weah's party lost the election there was tremendous disappointment clearly and there were large demonstrations, but even those demonstrations were not of a violent nature. And so I don't expect that there would be any outbreak of violence. He's had an opportunity and his supporters have had an opportunity to bring their case before the independent national electoral commission.

In fact, they delayed certifying Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf's victory to allow the case to be made, and there wasn't a credible amount of evidence presented. In my understanding, they didn’t actually show up with any evidence. But the point is that they've had an opportunity to present their case and I think it's been free; it's been fair. The independent national electoral commission has done an excellent job, and I do not expect any violence as a result.

We also have the UNMIL peacekeeping operation with Alan Doss as a special rep to the Secretary General, which has done a fabulous job of maintaining order in an environment in which the Liberian people have been able to express their desire for their president.

MR. BAILY: We have a follow-up here.

QUESTION: So do you expect Mr. Weah to concede?

AMBASSADOR FRAZER: Whether he concedes or not, the election has been called.

QUESTION: Excellent.

MR. BAILY: You in the back row, in the middle.

QUESTION: Okay. Thank you very much. My name is James Butty. I'm host of the Voice of America program "Daybreak Africa." You mentioned the elections -- Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf, but her election is just one part of the equation in Liberia. What is the United States ready or willing to do to help her deal with the monumental problems that the country faces? Two, is it the view of the United States that her government should or will be made to turn Charles Taylor over or to push for Charles Taylor to go before the special court in Sierra Leone?

AMBASSADOR FRAZER: Thank you. The United States will continue to support the people of Liberia and their newly elected government in developing the country. The United States has been the main source of assistance from the very beginning of that process, working with the Liberian International Contact Group. Certainly, U.S. Marines with Nigerian soldiers were the first to go in to try to assist the Liberian people with a humanitarian effort to bring to an end the war and the attack of the LURD, the Government of Liberia forces and the MODEL forces as well.

And so we have been involved. Over the last two years, the United States has contributed about a billion dollars in assistance to Liberia. We'll continue to provide significant assistance. We are the main embassy with a diplomatic presence in Liberia, so we are involved in the reconstruction of society, we're involved in training of police, we are involved in training the youth so that they can help rebuild the infrastructure of Liberia. We continue to support the government with what is called the GEMAP program to try to assist on transparency and as an anti-corruption mechanism for financial management of the country's resources.

So yes, we will definitely continue to support the Liberian people and their newly elected government and the newly elected president.

As for Charles Taylor, it's always been our policy that he must be turned over to the Sierra Leone special court. We've said that it is a matter of timing. Certainly you know that President Bush had a conversation with the President-elect to discuss the issue of Charles Taylor and she said that she needed more time, but certainly we would have an expectation that that government would turn him over. And there's a Security Council resolution to that effect.

MR. BAILY: In the back row, in the middle.

QUESTION: Jim Lobe, Inter Press Service. I have several questions but I think they can all be answered relatively quickly. One, can you tell us a little bit about your trip to China and what you hoped and did, in fact, achieve?

Second, the Council on Foreign Relations just put out a report yesterday. One of the things they criticized that has to do with human rights is they said -- they implied that the military and intelligence agencies, but the military in particular, have too much control over a lot of these programs and the State Department should exert much more control. I'm interested in your opinion about that.

And also, do you have an opinion as to whether Hissene Habre should be extradited to Belgium now that the Senegalese Government has said they're going to refer this to the AU?

AMBASSADOR FRAZER: Okay. The first question was my consultations in China. I was there to carry out part of Deputy Secretary Zoellick's Strategic Dialogue with China and I went as the first sub-regional dialogue. We started with Africa. So I had an opportunity to meet with -- basically the Vice Foreign Minister Dai, who should be here today continuing his discussions with Ambassador Zoellick; also, their assistant secretary level equivalent for African affairs and their equivalent for the director of policy and planning. I also had an opportunity to meet and talk to graduate students at the Peking University of Peking International Affairs program.

So it was broad consultations. We talked about our historical relationship, the United States' historical relationship with Africa, China's historical relationship with Africa. We also had an opportunity to talk about the principles, values and interests that inform our policies and our programs in Africa. And we had a chance to talk about specific countries and ways in which we might cooperate together in terms of helping to advance the NEPAD vision that Africans themselves have set up for the development of their continent.

So it was quite, I think, very productive and quite constructive and I'm looking forward to continuing this dialogue. I've invited my equivalent to come to the United States so that we can continue our dialogue. There are many areas I think where we actually can cooperate to strengthen Africa's capacity, agriculture, infrastructure, et cetera.

What was the second question?

QUESTION: State Department control of anti-terrorist --

AMBASSADOR FRAZER: Sure. I think that the report certainly is overstating the role of DOD in our counterterrorism strategy. There are two particular programs in Africa that we work on: the East Africa Counterterrorism Initiative, which is focused on the Horn and East Africa; and the Trans-Sahara Counterterrorism Initiative, which is obviously the Sahelian region. Beyond that, our approach fits with our global strategy of using all instruments of American power. That includes information sharing. It includes capacity building assistance, border control, immigration control and reaching out to Muslim youth, sort of helping to build or helping to assist with social and economic development as well.

So each of these initiatives, the East Africa Counterterrorism and the Trans-Sahara Counterterrorism Initiative, involves all of those elements in our counterterrorism strategy. So I think it's wrong to over-emphasize the sort of military training or operations component. I think that the reason it is over-emphasized is it is the one that's most interesting often to the media, and particularly in light of the fact that for so many years there has been no real military engagement, or operational engagement, I should say, in Africa, in Sub-Saharan Africa. There was this policy of no boots on the ground after Somalia, for so many years. And so to the degree that there are new areas in which we are training African forces or in Djibouti where we do have forces on the ground, I think that gets significant attention. Our efforts to build schools and hospitals and to outreach to youth -- well, we've been doing that all along and so it doesn't get as much attention, I believe. So I think the report is a bit skewed in that recommendation or that analysis within the report.

Overall, I think it's a good report. I haven't had a chance to read it in detail but I've had a chance to skim it, and I think that the people who were part of the commission are real Africa hands and I think that it's an important report and I do look forward to reading it in greater depth.

And then on the last question, I'm not familiar with the case, actually. What is the case, again?

QUESTION: The former President of Chad is being --

AMBASSADOR FRAZER: Right, sure.

QUESTION: -- is being -- there's an extradition request that he go to Belgium for trial.

AMBASSADOR FRAZER: Right. And your question to me is?

QUESTION: Does the U.S. have a position? Because the President of Senegal has now said that the African Union should decide at their next meeting.

AMBASSADOR FRAZER: Right. I think that the African Union should decide at their next meeting. (Laughter.)

QUESTION: Deon Lemprecht from Media 24 in South Africa. Does the U.S. think that regional powers in Africa, like South Africa specifically, should change its policies towards Zimbabwe and put more pressure on that government to embrace reform?

AMBASSADOR FRAZER: Yes, the United States believes all governments should put more pressure on Zimbabwe to change its policies towards greater democracy and economic reform, and we certainly believe that of South Africa as well. It's extremely important. Our policy is that the Mugabe government should be isolated until it allows a return to democracy, a respect for human rights; and we see that that economy is in a freefall because of the terrible policies of President Mugabe and his ZANU-PF party.

QUESTION: Thank you. My name is Samuel. I'm working for Sub-Saharan Informer/UPI. Based on your speech, you know, you mentioned about freedom of press and freedom of speech. I'm trying to talk specifically about Ethiopia. Recently, there is a media blackout in Addis Ababa, more than 12 journalists are in jail, and according to The Observer, there are more than 30,000 opposition supporters in jail, including the high -- one of the leaders of the opposition parties. And having seen these actions, are you planning to change any policy or are you condemning publicly what's going on in Addis Ababa?

Thank you.

AMBASSADOR FRAZER: Yes. Thank you very much. We have condemned what's going on in Addis Ababa. We have done it here in Washington and our Ambassador, who is the Chargé, has done it in Addis Ababa. Basically, we've condemned the police shooting of demonstrators. We've condemned the broad-based arrests of demonstrators. So certainly we've been on -- we are on the record as putting pressure on Prime Minister Meles to allow for greater freedom of assembly and certainly freedom of expression.

My Deputy Assistant Secretary Don Yamamoto just returned from Ethiopia, in which he carried the same message to Prime Minister Meles and to the Foreign Minister. So we're continuing to hold the government accountable for allowing greater democratic space and respect for human rights.

That said, I must say also that it's the responsibility of the opposition as well because when the opposition takes stones and pelts the police forces, they have to respect the rule of law when they're demonstrating freely. And so I think that the responsibility -- this is true of Ethiopia but it's true across Africa – there is responsibility that has to be there for both the opposition and for the government. Whereas we hold the governments even more accountable because they are supposed to be the upholders of the rule of law, we still must say when the opposition goes out of bounds as such.

And this is a very diverse opposition in Ethiopia. There are some who are demonstrating to sit in parliament, to create greater democratic space. There are others who are demonstrating to overthrow the government. And that's true that there are different -- there are some who want to reclaim Eritrea.

So this opposition -- there's democrats within the opposition and there are non-democrats within the opposition. I would say the same thing for the government. But still, we hold the government more accountable, for not allowing for free demonstrations. We've called on the government to free the many who are jailed and we've called on them to free the leaders of the opposition who are in jail right now, who are detained.

QUESTION: Steve Collingsay with AFP. Does the U.S. Government agree with the findings of the Council on Foreign Relations report that the African Union will be unable to fully man its small peacekeeping force for Darfur and that it's now time for an international non-UN coalition of nations to go in there and protect civilians? One member of the commission even raised the prospect of NATO being involved. How do you feel about that?

And just to follow up on the China question, the same report seems to think that or finds that in many cases China's engagement in Africa is in competition to U.S. goals and in some cases are directly contradictory to U.S. goals in Africa. How you view China's position there?

AMBASSADOR FRAZER: Thank you. I would say on the report on Darfur and the role of the AU or outside forces that there are even dissenting views within the report itself on that recommendation. So the taskforce didn't come out with a single voice on that issue and I think that that reflects really the complexity of the problem in Darfur and how to address it. There's no right answer. I think our policy is correct. We very much back the African Union force in Darfur. Now, there is an assessment that it would take up to a 12,000-troop force to be able to secure Darfur. Well, probably it will take even more than 12,000. Right now, the AU has 6,700 or so, about 7,000 troops on the ground. It's a huge space. Darfur is a large space. What we need to do is focus on a political solution to the problem.

In the interim, certainly we believe that we have to continue to help build the capacity of the AU to increase the security. We're calling on all of the parties to respect their commitments to a ceasefire and we will look at how we can strengthen the capacity. For the AU to get from 7,000 to 12,000 is going to be very difficult because one thing about the AU and African forces is they're deployed all over the continent. They're in Burundi, they're in Cote d'Ivoire, they're in Liberia, they're in Sierra Leone, they're in the Congo. And so when we go to the normal troop contributors -- let's say, Nigeria, South Africa, Ghana, Senegal, you know, Ethiopia even -- it's hard to see where they're going to come up with more forces.

So we have to look at other options to get that troop ceiling up to about 12,000 and that may include looking at UN troop contributors. The AU hasn't made that request yet but we certainly are considering it as one of the options to strengthen the force. But again, that can't be a panacea for what is the true solution in Darfur, which is a political settlement. And that's where the talks in Abuja are so important.

And you asked -- did you ask a second question?

QUESTION: I asked about China.

AMBASSADOR FRAZER: No, I don't agree with the report that China -- China's interests or China's engagement in Africa is in direct competition to the United States. I think that that's a very small view of what's needed in Africa. I think that China has just as great a right to engage in Africa as any other country -- France, England, U.S., Norway, all of them. You know, I mean, why should we see ourselves in competition really with any country in Africa? There's enough good to be done. There are areas, countries in which clearly our policies don't -- aren't -- don't cohere, I should say, that being particularly Sudan and in Zimbabwe, in which we've tried to talk to China about responsible action in the context of Africa.

Particularly, let's look at Zimbabwe. China's main trading partner in Sub-Saharan African is South Africa. It has very little economic interest, frankly, in Zimbabwe, but yet, because of the freefall of the economy in Zimbabwe, you see all of these economic refugees flowing into South Africa and potentially undermining stability and economic progress in that country. So China should have an interest, a national interest, in seeing a return to democracy, in seeing the rule of law, in seeing an economy that is being restored in Zimbabwe.

And so just in its own interest, you would think that its policy -- and China's argument is that it has a policy of non-interference in the internal affairs of countries. But this policy is not even consistent with the African Union. That was an old OAU line: non-interference in the internal affairs of countries. But the African Union has said that we all have a collective responsibility to ensure the stability and the progress of countries. And so we would expect China to join with the others in the international community to try to help the Zimbabwean people restore democracy and to reform that economy.

And so, you know, there are areas where, obviously, with any country, you're going to have disagreements over policy, foreign policy towards other countries. But no, I do not agree that we're in direct competition with China in Africa.

QUESTION: Okay. This is James Butty again. Voice of America, "Daybreak Africa." You articulate a U.S. policy on Zimbabwe. I wonder what is the -- what does the U.S. think about development, political developments in Uganda recently. I'm speaking specifically about the arrest of opposition leader Kizza Besigye.

And may I follow up? I ask that question because talking to people on the ground in those countries, you get to hear from some people who think that although we've made some -- United States has made proclamation about the arrest of Dr. Besigye that it was not as forceful as if we were dealing -- as we would do if we were dealing with Zimbabwe.

AMBASSADOR FRAZER: I don't know how it cannot be as forceful when we specifically say that we have tremendous concerns about the arrest of Dr. Besigye. I mean, we've stated it. We've stated it very clearly. You know, we have a lot of concerns about the road that Uganda is on and in general. We've spoken out, I think, very clearly about President Museveni's bid for a third term. You know, we didn't like it, you know, and we spoke to him frankly about this and we spoke to him as friends, frankly. The thing about it is he did it constitutionally.

Now, the arrest of Besigye brings up a lot of issues. It brings up the issues of the case that they're presenting, the political timing of it. He's the main opposition candidate against Museveni. So it looks like you're throwing your opposition, you know, your most credible competitor, in jail. The fact that they're trying him both in a civilian court and in a military court -- all of this is quite problematic.

So no, we think it's all extremely problematic and we've said this frankly to the President and to his ministers and to his government. And so I think that we are as clear about the trend of what's taking place in Uganda. In Zimbabwe, it's not a trend. I mean, they're in freefall. In Uganda, we're at a point -- it's a point of departure. It's a point -- it's a turning point, and how they handle Dr. Besigye will say a lot about the rule of law and democracy in Uganda. And so I think we're very clear with President Museveni and his government.

MR. BAILY: In the front row here.

QUESTION: Yaw Adu Otu. Since you brought up Museveni's quest for a third term, what is U.S. position on Obasanjo's intent or subtle support for a similar thing, for a third term?

AMBASSADOR FRAZER: Yes, he [Obasanjo] hasn't expressed that. He hasn't said that he's running for a third term. But our view is very clear that term limits should be respected. It's extremely important in Africa to respect term limits because it allows for the grooming of new leadership, it supports the rule of law and it demonstrates that, you know, most of these societies -- most of these countries have had these, you know, 20-year, 30-year presidents and they haven't developed under those 20- or 30-year presidents. Having a regular turnover of power actually ingrains, it institutionalizes, a democratic process and it gives an opportunity.

So what happens is when people feel that they can't get into government because they're going to have a life president, what do they do? They pick up arms. They go to the bush, you know, or it opens up the space for a military coup d'etat. And so it's extremely important for us, for the United States and its policy, to push African heads of state to respect their term limits. And we certainly would have that message to President Obasanjo should he indicate an interest in running for a third term.

QUESTION: Manelisi Dubase from the SABC. Just a follow-up. You've answered my first question on China's involvement in Africa. But in your assessment, how would you describe the situation in Darfur and in Zimbabwe? There are people who have described it as a situation that has reached a humanitarian crisis. I wonder if you'd share that view.

And specifically on Zimbabwe, people have been insisting that South Africa should do more to make sure that Zimbabwe returns to democracy. What more can South Africa do after everything that they have done to try to put together -- to get together the parties to negotiate their future? What more do you think South Africa can still do?

AMBASSADOR FRAZER: Sure. I do think both situations can be described as humanitarian crises -- Darfur and Zimbabwe. We are providing significant humanitarian assistance to Darfur, over about a $1 billion, I believe, over the last two years, about $600 million of that to Darfur and another $400 million to other parts of Sudan. We're similarly providing assistance to Zimbabwe and especially food. It's a food crisis there. A country that was a breadbasket for the region is now in need of humanitarian food aid. So yes, I think that both can be considered crises.

In Zimbabwe, what more could South Africa do? I think that you're right. South Africa has pursued a strategy. It's tried to do a lot. It's pursued a strategy of trying to have the MDC and ZANU-PF negotiate an end to the crisis. They've pushed them to negotiate a new constitution, which they did. They expected a free and fair election. They didn't -- it didn't happen. And then on top of that, after President Mugabe "won" the parliamentary election in early 2005, he unleashed "Operation Restore Order, Remove Trash," however you want to characterize it, where he demolished the homes of so many people in the cities and in the dead of the winter.

So I think at that point, South Africa was stunned. That's my own assessment having been the Ambassador in South Africa. I felt that -- I think that that they were stunned that he would carry out such a human rights abuse against the population after having "won" the parliamentary election.

So what now can South Africa do? I think that the role that it played in terms of Zimbabwe's efforts to pay back its IMF loans was important by holding certain conditions or saying that they couldn't lend money unless there were certain assurances in terms of the way in which the economy was being run, I think that was an important step.

I think that South Africa, you know, can clearly come out and say that there's a crisis occurring in Zimbabwe, that being the South African Government. The South African civil society has already said that. The Southern African Council of Churches has clearly spoken about the situation in Zimbabwe.

I think the government can also more openly acknowledge the situation. And why is that important? Some in South Africa will say, "Well, why do you want us to talk about it?" Because it helps to unleash SADC. The Southern African Development Community, many of those countries feel that they have to follow the lead of the big brother on the block -- South Africa. And I think SADC can more openly grapple with how can it deal with one of its members to try to help it to restore its economy and its democracy. And I think South Africa's leadership is extremely important in that regard.

QUESTION: Thank you, Ms. Secretary. As you know, in Ethiopia, things are really deteriorating, as you know, and I hope that the United States can help to alleviate these problems by, you know, asking the Government of Ethiopia through the immediate release of the political prisoners and students and intellectuals and so on and so forth. My question is that what the U.S. can do to help that part of the world to arrive at democracy and human rights respect.

And in follow-up, I have one question, if I may. According to Council of Foreign Relations, U.S. has no strategy to democracy in Ethiopia. What is -- do you agree or what's your response, Madame Secretary?

Thank you.

AMBASSADOR FRAZER: The Council of Foreign Relations says we have no strategy for democracy in Ethiopia? (Laughter.) Interesting perspective by the Council of Foreign Relations. I didn't talk to them about our strategy. They didn't come to talk to me about it.

As I said, we've already pressured the Government of Ethiopia to release the detainees. We've been very, very clear. We've asked them to conduct free and transparent judicial processes for those who are not released and to allow international observers to be present at the trials. So we've been very clear and unequivocal in our message.

I met with Prime Minister Meles at the UN General Assembly with Under Secretary Nick Burns and we were very, very clear with Prime Minister Meles at that time. You know, that was prior to these demonstrations, but even at that time we were saying you have to respect the right of people, citizens of Ethiopia, to demonstrate freely and to express themselves freely, that there shouldn't be these wide-scale arrests.

And so we're going to continue. We have conversations constantly with members of the opposition. At the Africa Bureau at State Department we meet with them, we talk with them. We're meeting with them and talking with them and their families in Ethiopia. And so I think that we're very engaged. You know, we're continuing to put pressure. But I say this and I say this broadly and I'm not saying it about Ethiopia. I'm actually making a point about the progress of democracy in Africa. And the opposition also has to be responsible.

You know, and I'm saying this about -- you know, across the continent. If you get -- and this is -- you know, the opposition in Ethiopia is a broad-based opposition. It's a coalition opposition. So I'm not speaking about any particular or in general. But I am saying that one of the elements of democratic progress that we need to see in Africa is real democrats in the opposition. You know, opposition leaders who want to be part of government; they want to as democrats. You know, it's not personal. It's not sort of overthrowing governments. It's not -- and I'm not -- again, I want to be very clear. I'm not talking about Ethiopia here. I'm talking about oppositions in general.

As important as I see it in terms of the progress of democracy, we have to put a lot of emphasis on these independent national electoral commissions because they conduct the elections and they often count the votes. And so if we get these institutions to be credible, it will give greater confidence to civil society that they've had a free and fair election. So we need to strengthen these institutions. That's a key component of democratization. We need to hold accountable the governments that are not allowing a level playing field. We have to put more pressure on them to allow that level playing field.

And we also have to get the opposition to act responsibly. You know, many of them, as soon as they're about to lose, they then decide it was unfair or they decide to boycott because they know they're going to lose, you know. And so I think that there's all elements of society that are responsible for the progress of democracy.

Certainly in Ethiopia, we hold the government accountable. We've protested the arrests. We've protested the political violence with the Ethiopian Government and we are going to continue to do so. We're putting tremendous pressure on Prime Minister Meles.

QUESTION: Yes. So Ben Bangoura, Guinea News and (inaudible).com. First of all, Mrs. Secretary, how do you assess your relationship with Guinea, a country that has been ruled for over 20 years by a dictatorial regime, one that is said to be corrupt and often seen as a stumbling block, not only for freedom but also for democracy in Africa at large, like those military dictators you just mentioned? Conte has modified the constitution many times in the last 15 years, just to remain in power. What can you tell us about your relationship with this country, which you keep providing help for some stuff?

And secondly, a few months ago, yes, the International Crisis Group -- I'm sure you heard about this -- issued a strong report suggesting that Guinea may be in line to be, you know, another killing field in Africa, given the fact that President Conte is ill and he has not paved the way for a succession and there's a power struggle, you know, in the back yard. I don't know, what can you tell us about that?

And my third question actually has to do with the election, the local and municipal elections to be taking place in two, three weeks period, and opposition as well as some rights movement have expressed doubt about the ability of this government to hold a free and fair election. What assurances do you have from the government of Conakry to respect the will of people?

AMBASSADOR FRAZER: Yes. Thank you for that. I think they're the same questions. It's just three forms of the same question about democracy in Guinea.

I had an opportunity to meet with the Prime Minister at the UN General Assembly in September and we had a chance to talk in depth about the democratic progress in Guinea and sort of succession issues. And I was very clear that Guinea is a priority for me as Assistant Secretary for Africa because I think that it's critical that we get the succession right, that we get these elections right, that we build the practice and the institutions for democracy in Guinea. And I say it's critical for me because it's a Mano River state and the stability in the Mano River states and they're all so very closely connected. And so we have to make sure that Guinea has a political transition that is a successful one. So I'm devoting quite a lot of attention to the local elections because I think that in those local and municipal elections, we can try to build the practices that are necessary for national level elections.

We are trying to build an independent electoral commission. That's one area trying to build capacity, trying to provide expertise, so that they can conduct these elections. We're also reaching out to all of the opposition parties. Again, it's my point about opposition. They often are divided amongst themselves. They've boycotted elections because they can't actually organize themselves. You know, they haven't gone inside the country to actually mobilize the population. And so they stand back in some other country and say, well, we're the opposition and we're boycotting because it's an unfair -- it's not a level playing field. Well, it’s not a level playing field, but the only way to change that is to get in there and to mobilize the population, to actually build constituencies, to actually deliver results, to talk to the people at home.

And so we're working with all of those opposition parties to try to get them to be responsible and active and engaged. We also, frankly, are talking to the military and saying to the military, you know, the rule of law, civilian control of the military, is critical. The military should not intervene in a succession. You know, so we're trying to avoid a Togo type of outcome or the outcome that we saw in Mauritania. So I am working very -- I mean, Guinea is a high priority for me. So we're working on it. We're talking to all sides and especially to the Prime Minister, but also to the opposition groups.

MR. BAILY: Thank you very much for coming. Assistant Secretary, thank you very much.

AMBASSADOR FRAZER: Thank you