Advancing Freedom, Peace and Prosperity in Africa

MODERATOR: I want to thank everyone for coming today on a Friday afternoon. The Foreign Press Center would like to thank our guest speakers here today and have Ambassador Frazer, who was sworn in as Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs on September 7th, and she previously served as our U.S. Ambassador to South Africa and as Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for African Affairs at the National Security Council. Welcome, Madame Ambassador, to our center.

To her right is Dr. Courville, who was appointed on April 25th to Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for African Affairs. Dr. Courville develops and coordinates United States policy engagement with Africa at the National Security Council.

Madame Ambassador will open with remarks, and then Dr. Courville, and then we'll go to questions and answers. If you could please, when you're called upon, just identify yourself. This is being transcribed down in D.C. so it helps the transcribers to fulfill that obligation, so if you can.

Madame Ambassador.

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRAZER: Thank you. Well, thank you all for coming this afternoon. I'm quite excited to be here and to be here in my new capacity as an Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs. We are also quite excited about the progress that's been made at this UN General Assembly. It has been very strong and productive negotiations. Secretary Rice has been here over the last two weeks to demonstrate the commitment that this Administration has to see a strong UN, and also the President's strong speech, I think, underscores the commitment of the Administration to our Africa policy.

In particular, I want to highlight his call for ending agricultural subsidies and tariffs through the negotiations at the Doha round in December at the WTO, the World Trade Organization; also his call for finalizing the debt cancellation deal with the IMF and the call for more grants from the World Bank. I think it shows that he has a vision in which this Administration is trying to promote a healthier, more prosperous and certainly a more peaceful Africa.

In terms of the Summit Declaration, we're quite pleased that the 190 members of the UN have agreed to establish a Human Rights Council, a Democracy Fund, a Peace-Building Commission, all which will support our efforts in Africa. Also, the President has called for the G-8 to perform its commitments, especially on HIV/AIDS but also the Administration has taken it a step further with its malaria initiative, which is $1.2 billion over five years targeted to 16 African countries.

I think most important is the President's reaffirmation of the Monterrey Consensus, which was the deal we made with developing countries that as we increase our assistance they will also increase their governance. That's extremely important. It is a principle and an approach to actually achieving the Millennium Development Goals.

Secretary Rice will meet with President Obasanjo and President Mbeki tomorrow. She has also met with Foreign Minister Kikwete. Myself and the Special Assistant to the President, Dr. Cindy Courville, we've had a number of important meetings that demonstrate this Administration's engagement with Africa. We've had a chance to meet with Prime Minister Diallo of Guinea and President Toure of Mali, President Kufuor of Ghana, President Nkurunziza of Burundi and President Kagame of Rwanda, President Museveni of Uganda, Prime Minister Meles. We've met with the Prime Minister of Lesotho; the President of Namibia, Pohamba; Foreign Minister Ismail. We've met with the National Security Advisor, Ali Mohammed. And over the next three or four days that we'll be here, we have many more meetings lined up.

We are indeed -- I think this level of engagement reflects the President's commitment as well as his Administration's commitment to a serious, and as I said, a very productive Africa agenda.

DR. COURVILLE: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for the opportunity to speak with you today. As Assistant Secretary Frazer has stated, and she's worn many hats and we've known each other for -- I won't say the number of years but we've been together as friends and colleagues for quite some time.

The President's agenda, clearly, as Dr. Frazer has put forth, was widely discussed, put forth in many levels. The National Security Advisor Steve Hadley met with a number of his counterparts while we were here in New York to discuss key issues of democratization, to look at trade and development, and also security in terms of counterterrorism. Mrs. Bush also met with the African ladies, heads of states' wives, this time to talk about HIV/AIDS. She participated in a malaria event. Also, Administrator Andrew Natsios dealt with the issues of famine and the hunger initiative.

As Assistant Secretary Frazer has said, what we see key to this Administration: democratization, trade and development, security. Part of the conversation that NSA Hadley had was post-Gleneagles: Where are we in movement on key factors? And also this afternoon we met with what we called the tripartite group, which is the Great Lakes issues. We have been convening now 11 meetings with this group over the course of the last year and we've had quite a few steps towards success, and I'll put it that way because it's an ongoing process. We started out with this group issuing a memorandum of understanding in terms of dealing with the former genocidaires in the Great Lakes, also dealing with those militias within Congo, within Uganda, and today we signed an agreement bringing in Burundi to this group and we've called it a tripartite-plus.

One of the focuses now that we're looking at is what critical next steps we will take on the issue of dealing with these militias and that we're going to give them sort of key deadlines, and if they have not met those deadlines then we will move forward with the issues of sanctions. We had representatives from MONUC, from the African Union, and what we call our Contact Group, which the U.S. initiated with the UK, France, Belgium and members of the EU to work on this. And actually, we will be meeting on Monday in Washington, D.C., to follow up on the tripartite meeting today.

So key issues continue to be moved forward on, as we did in the first time as in the second term. And what is probably one of the most exciting things is the partnership. President Bush met in May with five African heads of state on the democracy issues. Ambassador Frazer met with President Mogae of Botswana, who was part of that group, and President Kufour.

So it's an opportunity, and when we use the word "partnership," when I say opportunity, it is sitting at the table together outlined, which is what the tripartite did today. We said: What's our roadmap? What's our timeline? How are we dealing with the FDLR, the ADF* and the situation? And to see countries who were before in a rather contentious relationship now being able to have a very candid dialogue and being able to put the hard issues on the table and setting timelines and strategies of how you would deal with that. We talked about today the fact that groups had crossed over from Congo into Rwanda. Rwanda has disarmed. Tell these individuals. Now we have to look, as the international community, how do you move with the extradition of these groups?

So I think in terms of hands-on, practical, as our President would say, if there's an issue that you're going to put on the table, there has to be a solution. And that's the same kind of attitude we, as working with this Administration and representing the President and the Secretary, continue to move forward.

MODERATOR: Thank you. Let's open it up for questions. Could I ask you to identify yourself and where you’re from?

QUESTION: I'm Kristen Larsen from the Danish Broadcasting. I do hope your Contact Group (inaudible) works better than the one in the Balkans. (Laughter.) Could you please elaborate a bit on the Great Lakes and especially on DRC?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRAZER: Okay. All right. Yes, and I can tell you I can't compare it to the Balkans but the Contact Group has been quite effective. One of the key things that we have done at the Contact Group was changing the mandate of MONUC quite a few months back to give it greater authority to work not only in Ituri but in the Kivu and to take a more aggressive approach to dealing with the FDLR.

Let's put it this way. We had a one-day meeting. We started out that morning on the meeting focusing what can we do with MONUC to give it greater strength, greater influenced and cooperation? By the end of the day, we had a draft resolution. By the following week, our French colleague went forward and had the lead on it and we immediately took action.

Another step on Great Lakes and Congo in particular is elections. The Contact Group has clearly outlined what are our next steps and how we help to facilitate the process of elections. We all agree that dealing with the security situation in Eastern Congo is critical to overall Congo security development and democratization and it's been an active, ongoing group. Not only do we meet in person, but we use videoteleconferencing to discuss issues and we're very practical, very hands on, in our approach in terms of even with the issue of extradition right now, one of the things we'll discuss on Monday is how can the Contact Group work to better facilitate that.

Also, the Contact Group members will take on producing packages for those FDLR who are ready to disarm and translate it into the appropriate languages, set up the facilitation between MONUC and also the U.S. has taken the lead on what we call a fusion cell, which is an intelligence component and confidence-building with Rwanda, Burundi, Congo and Uganda. And the Contact Group members are going to use their networks to help filter information out so that one can go after those who are involved in the genocide and those who continue to stabilize not only with Rwanda but with Uganda and Congo internally. And we're also working in phase so we've agreed that the FDLR is the first phase, then we'll look at the ADF, then we'll look at internal militias from there. And that approach with clear-cut timelines seems to have been a very cooperative way to move on the issues.

QUESTION: Sue Pleming from Reuters. You talked about democratization and how important it is. What about the issue of Zimbabwe and in terms of democratization? Are you -- which African countries have you been speaking to about Zimbabwe while you've been here and what is it that the United States would like to do to put more pressure on Zimbabwe, for example, travel restrictions on members of President Mugabe's family or other issues? What on a practical -- you mentioned the word "practical," but what practical steps would you like to take on Zimbabwe?

DR. COURVILLE: On Zimbabwe, we're continuing to try to call attention to the human rights abuses, to the fact that the last election was not free and fair, there wasn't a level playing field. We are working with other countries to try to isolate the officials within that government, to try to bring pressure to bear. We do have smart sanctions on them; that is, travel sanctions and financial sanctions on particular individuals. These are not broad sanctions that would undermine the economy.

We will strengthen those sanctions, extend them to family members of officials in the government, and we're also trying to provide whatever humanitarian assistance we can to support the people of Zimbabwe.

QUESTION: Could you talk just a bit more about extending the travel sanctions? Does that mean that currently the President of Zimbabwe's family cannot visit the United States or is this something you're planning on introducing? And will other countries, like Britain -- maybe they've already done it, I'm not sure -- but what other countries -- I don't think they have, but would other countries follow suit and are you working in tandem with the group -- I've forgotten already which group it was from Great Britain.

DR. COURVILLE: In terms of the Contact Group, the one we formed is very specific to Congo. We do have an ongoing dialogue with our counterparts in the UK and France and others, and when we've looked at it with EU, Contact Group is specific because, in this case, Belgium's interest in Congo specific. So for Zimbabwe, most certainly the key countries we've worked with has been the UK and France and more certainly in terms of organizations, AU and SADC.

So I think as the Assistant Secretary has articulated, with democratization it's about emphasizing in terms of the region good elections, good governance, policies that are open. And as you begin to look at what is taking place just in the subregions, the neighbors of being affected most certainly by the collapse or near collapse of the economy in Zimbabwe, by, you know, whether you want to call them refugees, political or economic. That is having an impact on the region.

What we keep stressing to the regional leaders is the importance of the impact of free and fair elections, of an open society, of a once viable country, which was the breadbasket for the region is now one that the United States is responsible for feeding. And so in that context, practical hands-on is that despite what may be taking place within the political context of that government, President Bush is not going to allow people to starve or face those kinds of abuses. And we will continue to feed and take care. AID is doing a fantastic job. Our goal is prevent a famine. Yes, there is drought in the region but the primary goal is to put programs in place and work with the regional actors to distribute.

QUESTION: I'm sorry, just one more thing. In the meeting tomorrow with President Mbeki, will this be a focal point of your discussion or will you be looking at --

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRAZER: It won't be a focal point. It will be an item amongst other items on the agenda. We have issues that are regional as well as global to discuss with the South Africans, issues such as Sudan, Cote d'Ivoire, the progress in Burundi and the Great Lakes region, even Iran, you know, and UN reform in general. So our relationship with the South Africans and the discussion will be quite, quite broad.

QUESTION: My name is Kevin Kelley. I work for the Nation Media Group of Kenya. A different topic. I'm sure you're aware that in Kenya and a few other countries as well there's a lot of anxiety and even resentment about the U.S. stand regarding Article 98 agreements linked to the International Criminal Court, also known as bilaterals -- the unity agreement. Is the Administration giving any consideration to asking Congress to reconsider the law that mandates that aid be cut to countries that refuse to sign Article 98 agreements?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRAZER: We don't cut any aid to countries that refuse to sign an Article 98 agreement. What we do is limit the type of assistance we can provide on, basically, on the military side. Foreign military financing is limited if you don't sign an Article 98 agreement. So you know, the broad general development assistance and humanitarian assistance are untouched by Article 98.

QUESTION: Excuse me. It's the Nethercutt Amendment?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRAZER: Sorry?

QUESTION: The Nethercutt Amendment which was passed by Congress, I think a year or two ago?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRAZER: It does not cut economic support funds, it does not cut development assistance, child survival and development. It's mainly targeted on foreign military financing assistance and also to some degree international military education and training assistance, although there's possibilities for getting waivers for -- you know, which is basically academic, you know, military officials coming in to go to some of our military schools. Those are the areas that are affected by Article 98, but general development assistance, PEPFAR assistance, Kenya is one our largest recipients of the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, for example. It's untouched by Article 98.

We haven't, in fact, found that many countries resent the Article 98. Most of them understand the need for the United States to protect its citizens. Our stance on the International Criminal Court is that we have court systems, whether in the countries in which maybe one of our citizens would violate some atrocities there, the courts in that country can try them as well as in the United States. We're asking them to return -- either try them in your country or return them home to be tried. That's essentially what we're arguing for so that there will be accountability for any laws broken.

Also, it's important to note that from our perspective, Article 98 is the provision within the Rome Statute that allows countries to give this exception to those countries that have not ratified the Rome Statute. That's the purpose of Article 98. In fact, most of the countries in Sub-Saharan Africa have already signed these Article 98s so the premise that there's widespread resentment across Africa, we don't share that view.

QUESTION: Well, I believe there's five countries in Sub-Saharan Africa that have not agreed to sign Article 98s, and the Kenyans at least are persuaded that the Nethercutt Amendment does cut development aid. Ambassador Bellamy has indicated that --

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRAZER: There has been -- I can tell you as a matter of fact that there's been no development assistance to Kenya cut because of Article 98.

DR. COURVILLE: But Kenya is one of our MCA threshold countries, so and peacekeeping -- even though a country has not signed Article 98s, they still benefit from peacekeeping training. So it hasn't --

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRAZER: Yeah, there's always misperceptions and that's certainly one of them.

QUESTION: My name is Babatunde. I’m from African Independent of Nigeria. There is so much funds going to be released (inaudible) in the coming year into malaria programs, including World Bank, asked Africa to look at decade on Africa.

Now my question is how with all these funds coming, what are the (inaudible) put in place to make sure that (inaudible) worth solving the people’s problem, forget about malaria because everybody has so much money has gone into Africa on this kind of problems and they are too very much (inaudible) with Africans. What are the (inaudible) now that is different from so far?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRAZER: The malaria initiative is a presidential initiative and Dr. Courville co-chairs the group that is implementing it.

DR. COURVILLE: What we've done is to put experts right on -- USAID with Health and Human Services are having the primary operational lead on this program. What we've done is targeted a couple of key countries where we saw model programs in place, and here's what you do to expand.

Another component is to make it both public and private sector development in terms of putting resources. Yes, bed netting is one of the components for that. We've also looked into spraying and using both environmentally responsive kinds of pesticides in place. It's about cleaning up the environment. But what we're looking at, what we hope is different, is institutionalizing these programs, making it a way of life. We've been able to do this in the Western world to eradicate malaria, basically, in the environment, and South Africa most certainly has done an excellent job and many of those experts in some of the programs in the private sector who have worked on that are also going to be incorporated.

But it has to be part of what's done with the host country. It's not about going in and doing the job for them, but working hand in hand so that you build capacity throughout. I think one of the great benefits of the Assistant Secretary is that she's worn the hat of the ambassador so she's going to bring the insight to the ground with her team working with HHS and working with AID. Administrator Natsios is hands on with this program so one has to look too at what other preventive measures. It may seem sort of on the sidelines, but fresh water is a component of that. It's incorporating a very holistic aspect. You're right, many times programs have been used, but it's about working and understanding the unique environment of each one of these countries and tailoring that program to your country, not taking a program off the shelf and then saying one size fits all. I think that's got to be key.

And we're learning from the countries what they have done right to eradicate or to live in improved living conditions and environment. It can't just be spraying. It can't just be bed nets. You've got to have a holistic approach.

QUESTION: What I gathered (inaudible) is that Natsios made a statement that they're going to stand behind on that government (inaudible) is going to be behind. What I am more concerned about is that the standards when all this kind of funds coming, it doesn't really translate into an improved living standards for the people because an improved living standards in itself is an eradication of what causes all the other problems.

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRAZER: Let me try to answer that but not focus on the malaria initiative, which we're just starting to design the implementation plan for. We have experience with the HIV/AIDS, the PEPFAR initiative, and as Dr. Courville said, I had the unique opportunity to implement that plan in South Africa, which was a huge amount of money, more money than we've had, you know, where $198 million for one year, for instance, it’s just a huge amount of money.

And the way in which we implemented to ensure that there was accountability, we worked with many of the government's departments, we worked with health, we worked with correctional services, we worked with the defense department, social, education. So basically worked with the government's infrastructure.

We also worked with NGOs. We had 229 implementing partners, international NGOs and local NGOs. In the community-based organization, many of them didn't have the capacity to do accounting. We were very serious that every dime had to be accounted for and how it was expended and the results of the expenditure in terms of, you know, people who have been counseled, people who are receiving anti-retroviral drugs, whatever the outcome was.

And we ended up providing technical assistance to many of those organizations to build their accounting infrastructure, their accounting mechanisms, because they didn't have it in place. So you know, it's an intensive process. It's one that we as at the mission sometimes resented. Ambassador Tobias was very strong in the need for that accountability to make sure that that money was going to the people who it was intended for.

But I can tell you that there was -- it's difficult. There was some resentment because some people felt that the paperwork was more extensive than their capacity to treat. But what we ended up doing was sending experts, technical assistance, to try to help them build that monitoring and evaluation capacity.

And I suspect that with the malaria initiative we'll do a similar process.

It's also the case that we're trying to do development assistance in a new way, and that's where the Millennium Challenge Account and the Monterrey Compact comes in, which is at a certain level you have governments that have demonstrated that they're well governed, that they're transparent, you know, that they're not having huge issues with corruption; and you funnel that assistance to those governments and then it becomes almost a model for their neighbors, who may be poorly governed and they have problems with corruption. They see the assistance going to the better countries; they then may feel that they need to transform or reform themselves so that they can benefit from some of that assistance.

QUESTION: Mamadon Niang, French Television African Service. On the issue of trade, all eyes are looking at Doha in December, we know that. What we do not know is what are the practical measures that the United States envisions them to take in order to release the burden of the subsidies on African farmers. I mean, how – are there practical steps for a certain number of times that you’re looking to, in fact, to phase out the subsidies to American farmers?

Also, I’d like to speak about the Security Council expansion (inaudible) by the (inaudible) just happened this week. One of the contentions of African (inaudible) expended. What are American position about that?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRAZER: Let me start with that and then we can go to the reform of the WTO for ag subsidies. We support Security Council expansion. We absolutely support Security Council expansion. What we've always said is that that Security Council expansion is not the only part of UN reform and it's not the most important from the U.S. perspective, that we need to make the UN a more effective organization across all of its institutions and we feel very -- we're happy the Secretary General Annan agrees with that because he's put forward a very ambitious program of reform for the UN as a whole.

And so we're not against Security Council expansion. Our position, however, is that that expansion should occur according to certain principles, standards of criteria that, you know, we should expand to other democratically governed countries, that whoever is going to be on the Security Council should have responsibility for sharing the burden of peacekeeping, that they should be contributing financially to the UN operations, and that they have a demonstrated record of having done so.

So that's really -- you know, what we would like to have a conversation about are: What are the criteria for selecting countries for, you know, expanding the Security Council? Obviously, it can't be unlimited expansion because it would become, you know, unwieldy and unable to function. But we are certainly supportive of Security Council expansion.

On the WTO, part of our job here has been to engage African leaders on the, you know, sort of establishing the dialogue, beginning a dialogue on how we can work together to make sure that the WTO is reformed to level the playing field for African farmers, essentially, by ending these agricultural subsidies.

Our approach has been that you cannot take it commodity by commodity. You have to end all of the ag subsidies together, which is going to be a huge negotiation. Similarly, negotiating the summit declaration here has been an experience that will help us. You have to roll up your sleeves, get into the details, you know, of that negotiation, but it is certainly our view that it has to be done all at once.

And I think President Bush has been very explicit about this. We cannot sell the ending of ag subsidies to American farmers if other farmers continue to have those subsidies. The only way we can approach our farmers and approach our constituents and approach the Congress is that it's done as a whole. We need to eliminate all agricultural export subsidies and we need to reduce trade-distorting barriers. We need to increase market access by eliminating and reducing tariffs. And it's also important to say that there are many tariffs between African countries that are inhibiting free trade and undermining growth. So it's not simply a focus on the WTO although that's extremely important.

We will -- you could imagine that there will be American delegations that are going to go out to countries. We're going to be talking to leaders. We're talking to them here. We will look at what practically we can do to advance those negotiations.

QUESTION: One follow-up question? We know that the United States supports Japan for Security Council seat. Is there any African countries that you would say that you would support for a Security Council seat, and does it include voting power?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRAZER: We haven't said anything beyond Japan. We are not opposed to an African country for a Security Council seat, but we think that the important point which we are in the dialogue is establishing the criteria. Japan meets all of the criteria that I just outlined. When we move beyond there, we need to actually just have a dialogue about what that criteria would be. So we're not opposed to it, but we haven't taken a proactive stance on any other country.

QUESTION: Sawai. I'm with Japanese wire service, Kyodo News. Thank you for your support. (Laughter.)

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRAZER: You can thank President Bush. (Laughter.)

QUESTION: Well, my question is about China. Could you tell us about your assessment of China's support to some African countries speaking for -- like having forces because in Congress this issue has been raised and there are many congressmen voiced their concerns about their mood. So do you say their concerns were -- I'd like to know whether you share that.

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRAZER: Sure, I think we could probably both contribute to an answer. I am not too concerned about China, in general, engaging Africa. In fact, I think it's good because Africa is part of the world that we all have strong relations with African countries. I think it's a positive thing.

There are instances in which we've had to -- we need to increase our dialogue with China. For instance, in Sudan, there was a time when we were trying to, you know, put pressure on the regime to negotiate the North-South deal and China was, you know, getting lots and lots of oil, which was providing revenue to that very government. So that's an instance.

There was clearly the situation with Zimbabwe recently where Zimbabwe was looking to China to help finance its repayment of its debts to the IMF. And so just like with all governments, there are going to be points in which, on a bilateral basis when you're looking at another region, you have to harmonize your positions better. And so I think that that's going to be the nature of my engagement, at least with my counterparts in China, which is the same as it is with the UK, with the Belgians, with the French. We need to harmonize our positions.

DR. COURVILLE: I think we need to acknowledge that China has had a long history of engagement with African countries. If you look at it in terms of liberation movement struggles, most of it has been in the security sector side or military-to-military engagement. But it is important for us to have a dialogue with China on how can we help with HIV/AIDS, how can we use their expertise in the medical front, how can we use in communications. It really is going to take this joint engagement to really help facilitate change, with infrastructure development, there are many things that China can do. If we coordinate it, then this can mean greater prosperity for the continent.

And tariffs -- I mean textiles -- that's another area where we need to have real conversations with China.

QUESTION: President Bush has discussed this issue when he met with President Hu two days ago?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRAZER: Not in that previous conversations, but in delegations that have gone out we have raised the issue of China and how we can partner better together to have a more positive and enhancing impact on the African continent.

QUESTION: My name is Mamadou Dialo. I do freelance and work for Le Lynx in Guinea. The policy of – focused on African countries that have demonstrated like some willingness to develop, and do you think this is really -- do you think this ones put some of the countries on because some countries would never be interested what is happening, you know, in the neighborhood?

And do you think this policy wouldn't like exclude some of the countries, like if I look at West Africa, Mali is a country that is doing very fine but I don't think Guinea is going to be impressed by what is really happening in Mali. So if help has been sent on only to Mali, I have the feeling that Guinea is going to be kind of excluded.

DR. COURVILLE: Well, you know, I had an opportunity to meet with Prime Minister Diallo here. In fact, he was one of my very first appointments. And we had an opportunity to discuss economic reforms that are taking place. There had just been an IMF mission to Guinea which came back with a very positive report on the type of measures he's taking. We had a chance to talk about the efforts to create an independent electoral commission for local elections. We had a chance to talk in great detail about the political reforms that he's trying to undertake.

And so I think that it does have an impact -- the neighborhood does have an impact. Clearly, if you see your neighbor, one, having higher growth rates, whether that's from trade, you know, domestic savings, but also from foreign assistance, I think it does -- leaders do look at each other and there are certain competitive factors here.

Guinea has been a good friend to the United States so we have to push it along in terms of greater democratization and greater economic reforms, so we're not disengaging from Guinea, not in the least. This is part of the Mano River states and it's critical to the stability of Liberia and Sierra Leone. We've devoted tremendous resources there. And so we are working with the Prime Minister to try to bring Guinea along. We're not ignoring it.

But there is -- what has happened on Africa policy in the past, I'll say quite frankly, is that administration after administration, the U.S., the UK, Britain, France, we all run after crises. You know, there's a war and everybody devotes all of their attention to that war and they ignore the countries that are plugging along doing the right things. And what we're trying to say as an Administration is let's support those countries that are doing the right thing. It doesn't mean we won't have the disaster assistance, whether it's a man-made disaster or a natural disaster. It's not to say that we're going to ignore that. But it certainly is to say that we're going to support the good countries, the good partners. And I say "good" in terms of they're democratic, they're struggling, they're trying to do the right thing and they're deserving of international assistance.

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRAZER: And I think it also adds to when you look at the African Union and ECOWAS and SADC and the East Africa Community, they are also touting those ideals. So it would be out of step to suddenly say that, you know, you're not going to promote democracy. And President Bush has clearly said every individual is entitled to democracy and freedom. And so if a country is showing the wherewithal and the commitment, no matter how challenging those steps are, as I said, you have to help them get to the next plateau. I mean, if you say you're doing fine and get ignored, I think President Mogae of Botswana has made it clear each time. He said look, we're working hard. Yes, we're doing well. But it could be better. So we need to be recognized for what we're doing and how do we help facilitate as well as accelerate the process.

QUESTION: (Inaudible) from API. Let's move on the election in East Africa. I just wanted to confirm basically about Ethiopia. European Union and then even the Carter Center -- they report regarding the election and then they highly criticized what's going on there. But I don't see any kind of statement from the State Department or the White House. The recent government even killed more than 40 people and still there are some opposition in jail, even one candidate has been kidnapped. What do you say?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRAZER: Well, I'm sure that there will be a statement --

DR. COURVILLE: There was one today.

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRAZER: There you go. There's a statement today. Yes, I mean, our ambassador is part of the Ambassadors Donors Group. They put out a statement. Our statement that you will see reflects the same sentiment, which is basically that clearly there were issues and problems with this election. It was an important step for Ethiopia. So, you know, we were pleased to see it's a democratic opening. There needs to be further work on institutions, the electoral commission, for example, but we're also calling on the opposition to take their seats in parliament and make those changes through this democratic process, to get into the parliament, to start pushing and working. So I told you we had a chance to meet with Prime Minister Meles. We had an opportunity to talk to him about the need for Ethiopia's security forces to not use force but to allow people to have free assembly and freedom of speech. Of course, he has a law enforcement responsibility. He can't allow the destruction of property, you know, or unlawfulness, but that has to be done in a way that respects human rights. And we certainly made those points to him very clearly.

QUESTION: One follow up. There is a debate going on like Ethiopia is a partner for the U.S. especially in fight against terrorism. And (inaudible) to try to fight against terrorism, they won't be pressing, you know, for free -- or for freedom --

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FRAZER: President Bush, I think, has spoken very clearly on this point. He has said that the United States cannot buy stability for the price of liberty. You know, this is his basic statement. Long-term stability, the long-term fight against terror and extremism, is going to be done by countries that are well governed. That is the antidote to terrorists -- one of them, anyway.

And so no, we're not going to ignore, you know, human rights violations or a lack of democracy. What we're saying is the process took place, there were clear problems with it, but the opposition and the government needs to work together to further Ethiopia's democratic transition and process and consolidation.

DR. COURVILLE: I'd add two key examples, if you're talking about counterterrorism, that I think supports exactly what the Assistant Secretary has said. The recent coup in Mauritania -- and we do work with Mauritania on counterterrorism -- after that coup we suspended all of our engagements in terms of mil-to-mil engagement and counterterrorism and we clearly condemned the action of the coup and we've called for the formation of a transitional government.