3:15 P.M. EDT
Real Audio of Briefing
MR. DENIG: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Washington Foreign Press Center. Welcome also to journalists in our New York Foreign Press Center.
We are delighted to have at our podium Mr. Lorne Craner, the Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy, Human Rights and Labor. Secretary Craner just recently returned from a trip to the Middle East and he will be reporting on his experiences in Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and Iraq, and particularly dealing with the issue of expanding human and civil rights, and supporting the development of democracy in those three countries.
Secretary Craner will have some opening remarks, and after that we'll be glad to take your questions.
Secretary Craner.
ASSISTANT SECRETARY CRANER: Thank you very much. Thanks to all of you who are here today. I appreciate it. I returned on Friday night from a trip of about two weeks. I spent about three or four days in Afghanistan, in Kabul and Mazer-e-Sharif. I went from there to Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, where I spent two and a half days. And then I was in Iraq for about three days.
It was very useful, I think, doing Iraq and Afghanistan back to back. It is clear in Afghanistan that there is a human rights situation which is obviously very, very challenging, as Human Rights Watch laid out today in their report. At the same time, I think you're reading some initial signs of something we have been working on for quite some time, which is an effort to enhance the structure of democracy and human rights in Afghanistan, to try to get at some of these problems in a structural way.
We have also, at the same time, been addressing them on an individual case basis. We've been a big supporter of the Human Rights Commission, Sima Samar's Human Rights Commission in Afghanistan. We have fielded the provincial reconstruction teams. One of my deputies is out there for four months in Kandahar with one of these teams.
And we're supporting now the writing of the constitution, the taking of the constitution to a Loya Jirga assembly in Afghanistan, and then subsequent to that, the process of registration and election commission, and ultimately elections themselves, which we and President Karzai are very intent on seeing by early next summer in June.
I went from there to Saudi Arabia. It was my first time in Saudi Arabia in about 13 years. I had been intrigued over the past, about a year and a half, to read reports of very incremental and sometimes unrelated steps being taken in Saudi Arabia in terms of the first openings, I would say, in the system over there. I was able to spend quite a bit of time with folks outside of government in Saudi Arabia, in Jeddah. I also was very pleased to be able to meet the foreign minister there.
It is clear to me that both the government and people who are outside of government are trying to think about the kind of reforms that are needed in Saudi Arabia, and they're discussing those with each other. There are obviously varying ideas about what should happen and how quickly it should happen.
I then went up to Iraq, where I spent, as I said, three days. I was able to get outside of Iraq, or outside of Baghdad, to Hilla, which is one of the mass gravesites. While I was in Baghdad I met with the National Governing Council, with the Governing Council of the City of Baghdad with its Human Rights Subcommittee. I met a group of what I would call nascent NGOs that are just starting up inside of Iraq. Some of them up in the Kurdish areas have been going for a while.
And then we were able, also, to work on kind of a long-range plan both on human rights, but especially on democratic institutions that we would like to see culminate in an election next year in Iraq.
I think after that brief outline, I'll just take your questions.
MR. DENIG: Okay. If I could remind you to please use the microphone, identify yourself and your news organization. We'll start with Kyodo News.
QUESTION: Masakatsu Ota, Kyodo News. Thank you so much, Secretary. I have two questions.
You mentioned the process of writing the constitution in Afghanistan. And if you can, can you elaborate the process and how United States get involved in this writing process, in terms of the enhancing their human rights issue in the future Afghanistan? That's my first question.
And also about the Iraqi and the -- maybe we need a kind of a new constitution in the near future for people, the Iraqi. So in terms of their creating a new constitution, do you have any intention or idea to get involved in this process, in terms of also enhancing their human right issue in Iraqi?
Thank you, sir.
ASSISTANT SECRETARY CRANER: Thank you. In both cases, we have offered our assistance to the people in the country, who are the principal authors and architects of their own constitutions. In Afghanistan, the authors there, the Afghans, have drawn up a constitution that incorporates many of the human rights that we would hope to see in any constitution.
If you compare it to other constitutions in the Muslim world, for example, it incorporates many more human rights than you see elsewhere. While I was there, they also said that it was their intent to incorporate into the constitution the various international human rights treaties that Afghanistan has signed.
There are other issues that are still to be decided -- on the issue of freedom of worship, freedom of religion, the degree of Sharia law. But what they are now doing is taking the substance of the constitution out to the people in Afghanistan, not handing out copies of the draft as they currently have it, but describing it and saying to the Afghan people, "What do you think? What would you like to see in this?"
They're going to bring those ideas back. It is their desire to have a Loya Jirga to write, to draft, to amend this constitution in October. And it is their desire by the end of the year to have a constitution that will then enable them to move forward on elections to take place next June.
In Iraq, the process is a little further behind because I think the liberation is a little further behind. The current Governing Council, this council that was just set up, will soon appoint a committee of people who are within the council and outside the council. And they will decide the form by which a new constitution will be drawn up. For example, do they desire to see elections to a constitutional convention? Would it be sufficient to see people appointed to this constitutional convention?
And then they will begin drafting the constitution. They will also have to decide the mechanism by which the constitution will be adopted by the people of Iraq. It has been the case in other countries that a referendum has been held to approve the constitution, and that's one method they're considering.
After that, and as Mr. Bremer has said, in the next year, we would like to -- and I certainly think they would like to have national elections in their country. And that's what we're all aiming for.
QUESTION: Ben Bangoura
Thank you, Mr. Ambassador, and welcome again to Foreign Press Center.
ASSISTANT SECRETARY CRANER: Thank you. Nice to see you again.
QUESTION: Yes, nice to see you. I want to talk a little bit about Guinea. Last time you were here, we talked about democracy and the human rights in this country. And, as you may know, in December, there will be elections, presidential election.
And one of -- an aspect you mentioned in the briefing was that Guinea Government need to liberalize the radio, television, in order for other actors to take part in the process, and also to set up an electoral commission, you know, to make sure that everything runs good and fair and balanced. But so far, that is not happening.
Do you have any comment? And, eventually, would you be prepared in taking part of this process financially or anything?
ASSISTANT SECRETARY CRANER: The kind of things you mentioned are well known and well understood aspects of having open elections. If you do not have a free media, then candidates are not able to get their positions across to the populace.
A balanced election commission is an absolute prerequisite to an open election because without that you do not have -- first of all, you don't have the kind of administration you need to set up the technical aspects of the election. And, secondly, you don't have a commission to which people can go to appeal when they think something is being dealt with unfairly.
As I have said, these are well understood aspects of how to have an open election. Over the last 15 years, approximately 80 countries have become democracies, in part through running open and fair elections. It is not possible for anybody in today's world to not understand how to have an open election.
So in the cases where we don't see those things, we can only reach the conclusion that it is not a desire of the government to have an open election. And it is not up to us to advise technically or to give funding to these elections. It's a matter in countries where you don't see these prerequisites of having the political will to have an open democratic election, so that you can be part of what is now the greater part of this earth, which is open and democratic countries.
If you don't have open and democratic countries, increasingly you cannot attract investment because people don't want to go and invest their money where the situation is unstable.
So, in this case, in any case where a government is not allowing those things, they are effectively cutting their people off from what is going in the outside world, and they're effectively cutting their country off from open investment, and they need to get the political will to have open and fair elections.
QUESTION: If I could follow up on that. Have you been in touch with the government of Guinea? I understand that one time you made it clear your concern about that aspect.
ASSISTANT SECRETARY CRANER: No, both our ambassador and our Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs have made clear these issues across the continent of Africa, including Guinea.
QUESTION: Did you get any response from Government of Guinea? I mean, are they willing to do that?
ASSISTANT SECRETARY CRANER: We're looking not for verbal responses in the case of any government, but for action on the part of any government to address these kinds of issues. And we have not seen that, as you noted, so far.
QUESTION: So would you consider Guinea as a democratic government?
ASSISTANT SECRETARY CRANER: The degree to which one could call them the democracy is judged by events that happen today and in the coming weeks and months, and that will be up to the government there.
QUESTION: Thank you.
MR. DENIG: Okay. Gentleman in the back there.
QUESTION: And I'm Khalil Rehman from Associated Press of Pakistan. I am interested to know one thing. On the (inaudible) issues, if at all, they naturally have led to economic -- start of economics. If I say about Afghanistan and Iraq, you know, what will be the specifications in which the U.S. can render help, assistance to the local NGOs, or through them just to give them a bit of (inaudible).
ASSISTANT SECRETARY CRANER: That's something we're doing currently in Afghanistan. For example, my bureau is contributing to the National Human Rights Commission, to Sima Samar's commission. The British have also contributed over a million pounds to that commission.
A number of countries are contributing to nongovernmental organizations that have started up in Afghanistan. We are currently considering a new effort to accelerate success in Afghanistan that would incorporate many of those ideas, both in terms of the material well-being of Afghans, but also in terms of the political development and helping NGOs in Afghanistan.
So it's something that we, the UN and others are currently doing in Afghanistan that we would like to see more of that done, especially in the lead-up to the elections early next year. Having a vibrant civil society is another aspect that you look for in judging whether an election has been open and fair.
MR. DENIG: Okay. Next question.
Ben.
QUESTION: With regard to Liberia, which is in a very bad situation right now, and everybody is agreed that there is a need for military intervention there. What can we expect from United States? Are you prepared to take part in any peacekeeping mission, along with ECOWAS countries?
ASSISTANT SECRETARY CRANER: We have, as you know, condemned the fighting. Our ambassador there has requested certain things of the guerrillas. Our Deputy Assistant Secretary of State [for African Affairs] Pam Bridgewater was in Guinea over the weekend to work with parties on the violence.
We have urged the Movement for Democracy in Liberia, as they call themselves, to avoid worsening the situation, and we have condemned the guerrilla groups there.
We are working with West Africans as they deploy peacekeeping troops to Liberia and we are determining what is necessary to help maintain the ceasefire and allow for a peaceful transfer of power. We have provided $10 million in peacekeeping funds to that effort.
Our top priorities are to achieve peace and to stop the bloodshed, and then to see some kind of structure in place that can make sure that this kind of slaughter ends and doesn't happen again.
QUESTION: Thank you. I am going to follow up on Liberian issue. I mean, when it comes to troop deployments, is there any hope that the United States will go in there with some (inaudible) troops to keep peace in there, or you are just going to contribute financially?
ASSISTANT SECRETARY CRANER: That is something we are going to determine in consultation with the West Africans, and that is part of what Pamela Bridgewater, and now [Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs] Walter Kansteiner, are doing in the area to determine how the U.S. can best contribute to this peacekeeping effort.
QUESTION: So what can you tell us about the situation in Sao Tome and Principe, where a democratic government was overthrown over two weeks ago? Are you going something in order to help the government being restored there?
ASSISTANT SECRETARY CRANER: We are working with countries in Africa, which we think took on in the NEPAD initiative a prime responsibility for ensuring that democracy exists on the African continent and in places off the coast like Sao Tome and Principe.
What we would like to see is -- as you see the OAS in Latin America taking on responsibility, and as you are watching ASEAN in Asia begin to take on responsibility for the situation in Burma -- we would like to see the African Union and the countries that advocate NEPAD begin to take on some responsibility for places like Sao Tome and Principe, that it is not primarily a U.S. responsibility in these continents.
But in continents where democratic governments are more and more the norm -- and in Africa you now see over a dozen democracies on the continent -- that it is more and more their responsibility and they have the primary responsibility to ensure the return of democracy after a coup in a place like Sao Tome and Principe.
So we are working with them to encourage them to take on the primary responsibility for ensuring that democracy is not endangered in any country in Africa.
MR. DENIG: Gentleman in the back.
QUESTION: Khalil Rehman, Associated Press of Pakistan. With regards to training of -- lending of assistance to the NGOs in Afghanistan, I meant to mention Saudi Arabia. In fact, let me, if you'll kindly allow me to add one thing more. I mean, what will the womenfolk -- are there any efforts to involve them some way, to train them to participate in the lifeline?
ASSISTANT SECRETARY CRANER: In Saudi Arabia?
QUESTION: Yes, particularly.
ASSISTANT SECRETARY CRANER: It is something that people talked about while I was there. I think there is an understanding on the part of the government that they need to reform. What form the reform takes I think is yet to be determined.
It is also clear to me that there are many private citizens in Saudi Arabia that would like to see reform, including in the political sphere. And one of the areas they talked about that they think is most important that is a beginning ingredient in any democracy is civil society. They would like to see civil society groups registered and allowed to operate.
You have one example of that in this journalists association that is now allowed to exist and that it provides backing to journalists who want a more free ability to write stories. That is a good thing.
They talked about other kinds of NGOs that they would like to see, such as human rights NGOs. So they have particular ideas.
I was disappointed to see -- I understand today that a gentleman named Hussein Shabakshi has been prevented from writing. He wrote a very, I think, inspiring article about a Saudi Arabia of the future. I was disappointed to see he has apparently been told -- if it is true, it is disappointing -- he has apparently been told he would not be allowed to write for that particular paper in the future, and that is very disappointing and does not indicate the kind of reform that we're all hoping to see.
But it's clear to me that there is a conversation going on between people like Hussein Shabakshi and the government to try to determine the path forward on democracy and on reform. And I think that is a good thing. I think it is certainly fair to say that you have seen more incremental and interesting moves towards reform in Saudi Arabia over the past year and a half than you had seen probably between 1993 and 2002 altogether, and I think that's a very interesting development and it's something we want to encourage.
MR. DENIG: Yes, Kyodo.
QUESTION: Masakatsu Ota, Kyodo News. I would like to take advantage of your mentioning Burma/Myanmar issue. It's very serious situation in Burma. Still Aung San Suu Kyi is detained. Yesterday, recently actually, prime minister and the foreign minister of Thailand, they propose a idea, a kind of a roadmap to promote the human rights situation in Burma and also putting some linkage with the economic development.
And as you say, Myanmar is a very serious issue in the Asian country and that they have to take care of that, but we need a kind of involvement of the United States definitely that the -- some Asian diplomats said to me also. And but yesterday President Bush signed the new legislation imposing a sanction, so how can you explain the policy of United States in terms of the putting a sanction and also as well as the kind of creating the dynamics to put the Burma's future cause forward, looking forward on that?
Can I have some comment, sir?
ASSISTANT SECRETARY CRANER: Sure. I mentioned before that I think it's important for people in the region that are democratic countries to begin to take the lead in their region. That is something that ASEAN, I think, has begun to step up to do since Aung San Suu Kyi was rearrested and put into detention.
We have a particular view of how to approach this problem and we have been expressing that through sanctions since about 1996. We, along with the Europeans, with the EU, have had that kind of policy to try to bring about democracy and change in Burma.
The countries in ASEAN have been making a different case, which is that engagement with Burma can work. And what we have said to the countries in ASEAN, and to Japan and others which have advocated engagement, is that this is your opportunity to show that a policy of engagement can work.
And so I noted the Thailand proposal. I know that there are other proposals out there in Asia. But I think the most important thing is that Asian leaders, Mr. Mahathir, for example, have begun to step up to address this issue. And I think that's very important. There are many, many ideas out there, but the important part is that ASEAN is beginning to address this issue in a realistic way.
We are very encouraging of that. We would like to see more of that. We will remain engaged. We realize that our role is very important in Burma and in solving and bringing about democracy in Burma. The EU recognizes the same thing, that our two roles are indispensable. But we are very interested to see ASEAN countries become more and more engaged in this process, and that's something that we're very much encouraging.
It has become the case in a number of countries, and here I'm thinking of Zimbabwe and Belarus and Cuba and others, that the U.S. can have a policy and the EU can have a policy on these countries, but it is when the neighbors of a country begin to get active and have a real policy that change can come about. And you've seen that around the world in different cases. I think of the example of Serbia, where its neighbors finally got engaged and decided it was time to bring about change politically in that country, and that change finally came about.
But the role of neighbors is indispensable in these areas and in solving these problems because the neighbors really have a stake in the outcome. In Burma, in Zimbabwe, for example, it's a very economic stake in the outcome. Their economies are going to be dragged down. In the case of Africa, it's also an image issue. It is very difficult for African leaders to claim our continent is turning more and more towards democracy if they can't solve the problem of Zimbabwe. It is very difficult for ASEAN to claim “we are a group of democracies, as is most of the rest of the world,” if they can't work to solve the problem of Burma. And that's why it's important and that's why we're encouraging.
MR. DENIG: Any final questions? Yes, please.
QUESTION: Thank you. Lauren Brodsky from the Washington File. In regards to Afghanistan, what will be the process of including women in the constitutional writing that's happening now?
ASSISTANT SECRETARY CRANER: There is a desire, and we have seen evidence so far of realistic intent, to include women, not just in the writing of the constitution, but also in the present government. I think it was the case early in the first Loya Jirga that, perhaps, women were underrepresented. That's what they said they felt in Afghanistan. And that is something to which I know President Karzai is very sensitive, and I think rightly so. So I think in this Loya Jirga process, you're going to see a much greater participation of women.
It's something also, by the way, that is an issue to which people are very sensitive in Iraq, where, again, early on, I think women were probably underrepresented. What you're seeing now is women more and more able to exist in the economic sphere, as you're seeing more and more economic activity on the streets of Baghdad, as you're seeing more and more hospitals open, as you're seeing more and more clinics open, as you're seeing schools begin to reopen, all of which is happening throughout Iraq, women are more involved in those spheres.
But when I went to the Governing Council, I met with a group of eight of the Governing Council. Others were out of the country, in the UN, or in London or wherever. Women were well represented on the council, and women were very forthright about their views with me in Iraq.
The final vignette I'll give you is I was up in Mazer-e-Sharif with General Eikenberry and the governor of the province. And they had kind of a town hall meeting to talk to people. I think five or six people got up to speak, of whom three were women, and one of them was wagging her finger in Eikenberry's face, telling him what he ought to be doing.
And it was clear to me that the women there had a very good sense of what has ailed Afghanistan, that this sense of provincialism and tribalism that they said -- I'm not saying this, this is their words -- that is what enabled the Russians, for example, to conquer Afghanistan.
They said as long as we remain divided, and as long as we remain regional, and as long as we're Pashtuns, and Uzbeks and Tajiks, and we're not really Afghans, that kind of thing is going to continue. That's what allowed the Russians in. That's what allowed the Taliban in. And they have, I thought, a very, very good sense that the nation is going to have to come together as Afghans, and not as a collection of ethnic groups, to really not only stop what has occurred that is bad in the past from reoccurring, but also to begin to make very good things happen in Afghanistan.
Yeah, it was very interesting for me to see. This is at the local level, you know, not picked by anybody, not even elected by anybody, just the local leaders in the region, and they were not at all bashful about getting up and stating their views, including wagging their finger in a, I think, a three-star general's face to tell him what he ought to be doing. So it was quite something to see.
MR. DENIG: One last question in the back?
QUESTION: It's for the Italian News Agency. I was -- a follow-up about Liberia. What do you mean when you say African countries, their sensibility? And do you really think that the African country can get a solution alone without the help of United States? I mean, where is the limit to where United States are going to work for Liberia?
ASSISTANT SECRETARY CRANER: I think that is yet to be decided. That is something that our diplomats in the region, senior diplomats from Washington, are trying to determine with people, with countries in the region, is what are their capabilities and what are they able to do, and then what is it necessary for us to do to try to bring about an end to the bloodshed in Liberia. And that is something that is yet to be determined.
MR. DENIG: Ben, did you have a final one?
QUESTION: Yes.
MR. DENIG: Okay.
QUESTION: Do you think the -- you looked at late on still determining. We have been talking about sending experts over there from Pentagon. They went in. Have they report any -- anything to you that would help you determine? Because the time is running out and the people are being killed.
ASSISTANT SECRETARY CRANER: They have reported a lot to us that is helping us to determine what we ought to be doing. We think it is our responsibility to talk to countries in the region about what they can do, and then together -- not unilaterally and not just the U.S. as the sole power in the region -- to then determine what we can all do together to try to end the bloodshed in Liberia.
MR. DENIG: Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary.
ASSISTANT SECRETARY CRANER: All right, thanks.
MR. DENIG: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
