U.S.-Mexican Labor Relations

Real Audio of Briefing

       MODERATOR: (In progress) -- to have with us today the Secretary of Labor Elaine Chao. And she has also brought with her some of her senior advisors at the Department of Labor, Thomas Moorhead, the deputy undersecretary of Labor for international affairs; Tammy McCutchen, the administrator for -- in the Wage and Hour Division; Eugene Scalia, the solicitor; and John Henshaw, the assistant secretary for occupational safety and health. So you see we have got -- whatever questions you have on the topic at hand, which is the U.S.-Mexico Labor Agreement, recently signed when Secretary Chao was in Mexico, I think we have got the expertise here today to answer those questions. And because time is limited, I won't take any more of the time myself, and I'll turn over the podium to Secretary Chao. Thank you.

       SEC. CHAO: Thank you very much. As I mentioned, this is a very important meeting for us, so I appreciate your taking the time to help us get out the news about what we do to help Hispanic workers here at the Department of Labor, and also in particular our concerns and to ease some others' concerns about the Hoffman case. And, as you can see, I have brought my entire leadership -- my most senior leadership team here. It is very rare for the top leadership of the Department of Labor, who are arrayed behind me, to be with us at one point. But I have them all here, because I do want to emphasize how important this issue is to us and how we want to convey the news of all that we are doing for Hispanic and Latino workers.

       So, as I start, I would like to say a few words about the various things that we are doing at the department. I will also talk a bit about the Hoffman case, and then we can proceed to Qs and As -- and you have my colleagues who are very able to help me with that as well. First of all, I want to say that this all would not have happened, this good environment between Mexico and the United States, if it were not for the very personal relationship between President Fox, and also of course President George W. Bush. They are really creating a new era of cooperation that will result, we are confident, in increased economic and labor opportunities on both sides of our border.

       In particular, on our bilateral relationship, I want to say that the Department of Labor's Bureau of International Labor Affairs, headed up by Tom Moorhead here, has been in the frontlines of implementing the labor accords of NAFTA and also NAALC. They have been working very closely together with the Mexican labor secretariat and the Mexican consulates in the United States on a number of key areas, like technical assistance and ministerial cooperation agreements.

       Last month in Geneva the Mexican secretary of labor and social welfare, the honorable Carlos Abascal Carranza, and I signed a joint declaration. It was designed to collaboratively, together, address a number of workplace issues like the ones that we are going to discuss now that's pertinent to NAALC.

       Now, part of this agreement called for the establishment of a bilateral working group on occupational safety and health. And at the beginning of this week I sent the assistant secretary for occupational safety and health, John Henshaw, to its inaugural meeting in Mexico. They discussed safety and health trends and priorities, methods of compliance evaluation, handling of hazardous materials and other key issues.

       Last month a Department of Labor-led technical team conducted a review and assessment of Mexico's Internet-based job and talent bank. The Department of Labor team also focused on furthering Mexico's development of U.S.-styled, what we call one-stop career centers or one-stop employment centers, and the creation of a national occupational classification system.

       Also last month the Department of Labor sponsored a public forum in Maine, in the state of Maine, to address migrant agricultural issues, which was very well attended by high level Mexican officials. A number of Department of Labor agency experts met with their Mexican counterparts to discuss treatment of migrant workers, their conditions of employment, and best practices. In April, as a result of the concerns raised by the Hoffman case, I specifically signed a joint ministerial statement with the Mexican secretary of labor and welfare. This statement agreement reaffirms our commitment to fully enforce the applicable labor laws administered by our department to protect workers -- all workers, regardless of status. These labor laws, including the basic worker protections -- guaranteeing payment of minimum wage and assuring safe and healthy workplaces, will continue to be enforced vigorously to protect all workers, again regardless of their status.

       Now, I have copies of these little blue brochures that are here. You will find them very helpful, because they include all sorts of information in English and in Spanish. And we also have throughout our department a number of bilingual assistants and educational materials. So, for example, this is something that we have published -- it comes from OSHA -- it's in Spanish -- and it tells workers in Spanish what their rights are in the United States.

       So I hope that you will take a look at all of that.

       And then on the domestic front let me say a few things as well. At the U.S. Department of Labor worker safety has been my top priority. And in the year before I took office, Hispanics workers, or Hispanics compromised 11 percent of our population, and yet 14 percent of workplace fatalities were Hispanic. That trend, as the president and I have said on many occasions, is unacceptable, and we are taking strong action. OSHA is stepping up inspections. We are establishing a relationship with the Hispanic Contractors of America to translate and disseminate safety and educational information in Spanish. OSHA has a new Spanish website and a new toll-free Spanish hotline. We are also working closely with the Mexican Embassy here. OSHA is also working with a number of other labor unions who work with Hispanic workers. We believe very much that by working with employers and employees that's the best way we can help workers.

       But we will also not hesitate to take aggressive action against employers who violate safety standards. In October, for example, the department fined three New York City contractors whose negligence resulted in the death and injury of several Hispanic construction workers. The U.S. Department of Labor's Wage and Hour Division has also been very active in working with the Mexican consulates in providing Spanish-speaking immigrants with information on wage and hour laws. We have over 340 Spanish- speaking investigators, and we have been busy educating Hispanic employers, employees and community groups on worker rights. This is called compliance assistance. We work with employers to make sure they know what the rights of their workers are. And in industries noted for hiring immigrant or migrant workers, like nursing or like meat packing or poultry, the Wage and Hour Division has been very aggressive in guaranteeing that all workers, regardless of status, receive their legal wages, and that employers fully comply with the Fair Labor Standards Act.

       Again, as an example, the department recently filed a lawsuit against Tyson's food, seeking to retrieve and recover pay and wages for poultry employees who took health and safety precautions as required for their work. That is an issue which required workers to put on certain clothing. Well, we made sure that they were being paid for the time that they were using to put on their clothing. We also filed a lawsuit against a New York City garment factory, Danmar (ph) Finishing, after our investigation showed that they failed to pay about 176 workers, many of them Hispanics, back wages. This complaint also seeks reinstatement for a Hispanic employee who was fired for cooperating with the department, our department, in this investigation. MORE

       We also have training opportunities at the department, and I'll just take a few moments to tell you about that. The Opportunity and Training Administration is specifically focused on the training and employment needs of Hispanic workers. We have lots and lots of planning grants to help serve workers with limited English proficiency. We have grants to expand employment opportunities for low-income workers in the Lower Rio Grande Valley. We also have funding for rural opportunities in Ohio, in Pennsylvania, which helps dislocated farm workers training for new opportunities in other non-farm employment.

       We also have been working with the Hispanic Association of Colleges and Universities to help them with a work force development program. We have over 180 one-stop career centers -- and more than 35 of them offer English-as-a-second-language courses. We also have developed a number of other Hispanic outreach programs.

       So we have done a great deal to ensure that Hispanic workers are fully protected under our labor laws. We have done a great deal for outreach and education, because they are a very valuable part of our work force, and we want to ensure that they are protected, as all workers should be protected, regardless of status.

       So, once again I want to emphasize that I have brought my entire senior-most tiers of my entire leadership team here. I have John Henshaw, the administrator of OSHA. I have Tammy McCutchen, who is the assistant secretary for wage and hour. I have Tom Moorhead, who is the deputy undersecretary for the International Labor Affairs Bureau. And I also have who else? Oh, I have someone who is very, very important, because he is absolutely essential to the interpretation and the enforcement of our laws, and that is the solicitor of the Department of Labor, and his name is Eugene Scalia, and he is very well known for all of his good work and his protecting workers around the country.

       So, with that, I will be more than glad to answer any questions, and also make it available to my colleagues, to you as well.

       I might just also end on a personal note as well. I know the Hoffman case has created a great deal of misunderstanding or uncertainty and perhaps turmoil in Mexico. I want to say to the audience perhaps who is watching, and also to those whose readers you may reach, you know, that I came as an immigrant to this country. I am obviously an American of Chinese descent. But I came when I was eight years old. So we had a very, very difficult time when we first came. So I understand very well the challenges and the great hardships that immigrants face. So I have a personal empathy and concern for protecting the rights of immigrants. And so I hope that your audience will be assured that this department will do everything that it can to protect workers under the existing laws that we have, regardless of status. Thank you very much.

       MODERATOR: Thank you very much. We are ready now to take your questions. I would ask that you just wait for the microphone and identify yourself first. Sir?

       Q Yes -- (inaudible) -- with the Mexican News Agency Notimex. I don't know if you are aware but several weeks ago there was an agreement between this farm company in Maine -- I think the name is the Decoaster (ph) Farm, and some Mexican workers. Among other things, the Mexican workers sued this company because they claim that the company was making some kind of labor discrimination, and also they complain about the living conditions. I know that several years ago OSHA fined this company also for living conditions for those migrant workers. My question basically is: Could you give us an assessment of what are the living conditions of most migrant workers across the country? And if -- I mean, you can assure that at this time those conditions are -- I mean, according to the law, or do you still have some problems in this area?

       SEC. CHAO: I think certainly -- I will say a few words, and then I am going to ask one of my colleagues to follow up as well. I think certainly the conditions of migrant workers is not one that is uniformly good across the country. And that's why we need to have the laws and the rules and regulations that we do have in this country to ensure that workers are not treated unfairly. And now if I can ask one of my colleagues -- which one do you think should best -- Tammy, if you could? Tammy, if you could? This is Tammy McCutchen, the assistant secretary for wage and hour.

       MS. MCCUTCHEN: The Wage and Hour Division actually enforces the OSHA housing standards that govern the conditions of the housing for migrant farm workers, and agriculture is actually one of our -- one of three industries in the United States which we spend our most time on. We call them our nationally-targeted industries. So we spend a lot of resources at Wage and Hour investigating the ag workers. And every investigation we do involves the housing which the migrant farm workers live in. We do find violations, but when we do we fine the farms and we make them fix the housing so that it complies with the OSHA standards. But it is something we look at a lot and spend a lot of resources on.

       SEC. CHAO: Any other comments from anybody else? Gene? Solicitor? Gene Scalia, the solicitor of the Department of Labor.

       MR. SCALIA: Yes. On the Decoster (ph) Company particularly I am aware that they have had a history in the past with Labor Department enforcement agencies. And just approximately a month ago OSHA issued a very sizeable citation against that company -- one of the larger citations this year -- I think it was approximately $350,000 for the unsafe condition of some of the buildings that their workers had to go into to do their work. And so that is a company that we are familiar with, and that we have inspected fairly frequently because of those kinds of conditions.

       SEC. CHAO: Yes?

       Q (Off mike) -- Peru. You mentioned before that two or three different times that this agreement was written regardless of the situation -- the status of these immigrants. So what exactly does it mean? This agreement could allow that these people even they don't have a visa, a working visa, they could stay here and work -- even they don't have that visa?

       SEC. CHAO: If you have worked, regardless of your status, you are entitled to be paid. You are entitled to work in a safe working environment. But that particular case is a little bit more complicated than that. But if you are a worker here, regardless of your status -- you have put in work -- you have worked, you are entitled to be paid. Nobody will take away your pay, if you have worked. So I want to make that very clear.

       But let me have also the solicitor come up and address that a little bit too.

       MR. SCALIA: Thank you, Madam Secretary. Three of the laws that we enforce that are of special concern to Hispanic workers and also to immigrant workers are, first, OSHA; second, the Fair Labor Standards Act; and, third, the Migrant and Seasonal and Agriculture Worker Protection ACT, MSPA. And it's our view that none of the employees' rights under those statutes ought to be affected by this recent Hoffman Plastic case. So, for example, under OSHA, all workers have right to a safe and healthful workplace, despite the Hoffman Plastic decision.

       Similarly, under the wage hour law, all workers have a right to be paid for the hours that they have worked once they've worked them. And that applies both under the wage hour laws, under the Fair Labor Standards Act, but also under MSPA for immigrants here for possibly a short period of time. They also are entitled to safe work condition and entitled to pay for the hours they've worked. And that's a position that we have taken pains to put forward, both in the joint ministerial statement that the secretary signed, and also in questions and answers that we have gotten out there in the legal community to make clear to employers what position we are going to take.

       And we are getting the word out. We think the word is out, and we will continue to make sure that it is understood that workers have these protections, regardless of their immigrant status.

       Now, the Hoffman case did raise the situation of somebody who was actually terminated from his job, and the question was whether he could get pay for time that he was out of work. That's an issue that arises sometimes under Labor Department laws, but not frequently at all under the laws that I've mentioned. Those are concerned with the safety of the conditions and getting paid for hours worked. And we think those rights remain fully intact.

       Q (Off mike) -- on that specific point, if I may. Apparently one of the reasons because these people were fired from Hoffman was because they were trying to unionize. So doesn't it fit very strong precedent, meaning that some company could be using the laws to avoid the uniting of workers, whatever the origin?

       MR. SCALIA: The union organization laws are not laws administered by the Department of Labor, so I am a little bit uncomfortable trying to tell you what I think the effect will be for the National Labor Relations Board that enforces that law.

       What I will say is that employees do continue to have the right to unionize, regardless of their immigrant status, but that the Hoffman Plastic case will make it more difficult for them to get money if they are fired -- get money for time that they are out of work. But it will still remain illegal to fire in that circumstance. MORE

       SEC. CHAO: But I think it should also be noted that these people -- that the issue involved work -- a period of time in which no work was rendered. The worker was not working. So the issue as to whether he should be paid, or he or she should be paid or not is one I think that is a little bit -- that's a little bit under discussion here. There was no -- the person did not work, so therefore there was no compensation.

       Q Maybe -- I'm sorry -- maybe this is because in Mexico and in some European countries the time that is spent in these kind of problems, labor problems, is -- the workers have the possibility to sue, to demand -- to sue the company for -- the employer for this kind of thing. So in this case it presents a different point. How are you -- if you have dealt with these kind of issues in your dealings, in your agreements with the Mexican side?

       SEC. CHAO: That is much more the jurisdiction of the National Labor Relations Act. But I think the most important thing people should feel -- take comfort in or have confidence in is that if they are working they are entitled to be paid. They are entitled to work in a safe and healthy environment, and they are entitled to the protection of every other worker, regardless of status. But it must be for work rendered. So you have to be -- you have to work to be compensated. If you don't work, then you don't get compensated.

       Q (Off mike) -- with the German Press Agency. So what you are saying is that if an immigrant worker without a working visa has one of these problems he is not getting paid or he is working in a non-safe, non-healthy environment, he can get in touch with the Department of Labor?

       SEC. CHAO: Absolutely, absolutely.

       Q And ask for his rights?

       SEC. CHAO: Absolutely.

       Q And he wont' have any problems because of his --

       SEC. CHAO: We never ask. We never ask. In fact, that happens every day now. I just was in California, and visiting my regional offices. And in fact it was a wage and hour. We have offices throughout the country, and we receive calls from workers from all occupations. We do not ask their background, we do not ask their status. And we investigate the working conditions and the particular complaint. So that actually happens today already.

       Q (Off mike) -- from Agence France Presse. You say that the workers are entitled to this pay and safe work conditions. But if they are illegal in this country, it's like millions of illegal immigrants here -- they are entitled to that -- but actually they are not getting it. So don't you think that these migration talks with Mexico -- it's the only way to find a solution for that?

       SEC. CHAO: I don't think you can say that they are not getting it. I think there are workers who are receiving appropriate pay commiserate with their particular job. I think we are both agreeing that there are a significant number of out-of- status workers who are not -- who are being taken advantage of. And we want to eradicate those practices. That is not acceptable to us. We do not care if you are an immigrant or you are here for generations. We have certain laws here that determine the actual working conditions that people should work. So we have rules and regulations. We have our compliance assistance programs to help employers know what their obligations are. And then we have educational programs to let workers know what their rights are.

       And as for the issue that you bring on, I think that's an issue that President Fox and President Bush have talked about and I think it is something that the president would probably like to see happen very much. But I think it is also a reality that the attacks of September 11th probably have pushed back that agenda a little bit more. But, again, I do want to assure people that if they work in the United States the should not be fearful that they will not be paid for their labors, or that they are relegated to working in unacceptable conditions. And I hope that you will help us get that point across.

       MODERATOR: Thank you very much. I'm sorry we are out of time. Thank you, Madam Secretary.

       SEC. CHAO: Thank you.

       MODERATOR: And thanks all of you.

       SEC. CHAO: Thank you very much.