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MODERATOR: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Washington Foreign Press Center. Today, we have Mr. Robert Mocny, who is the US-VISIT program director. He's here to talk to you today about recent rule changes. And without further ado, I'll turn things over to Mr. Mocny.
MR. MOCNY: Well, thank you very much and good afternoon, everybody. Thank you for joining us today. I am here to announce the Department of Homeland Security's new notice of proposed rulemaking, which is announcing that we will be collecting digital fingerprints from foreign nationals when they depart the United States, leaving by air or by sea. This publication of the proposed rule is a significant step forward; indeed just an effort to deploy biometric exit procedures that will help improve the integrity of our immigration system and our border management system.
But let me be clear. This announcement, today's announcement does not change any procedures for foreign nationals leaving from airport to seaports today until we have a final rule in place. Visitors still should be turning in their paper forms or I-94 when they depart the United States, but we do plan to add the fingerprint collection to our exit procedures when we publish a final rule.
So why are we collecting the biometrics? I think many of you know that we have the biometric exit collection process in place for entry, so anytime a visitor either applies for a visa overseas or applies for entry at one of our ports of entry, they are fingerprinted and photographed. And that procedure has helped us, since we started in January 2004, identify some 2,400 people based on the biometrics alone. These are people who have tried to use a different name, a different date of birth, a different passport other than whom they really are, and the fingerprints identify them to be a convicted criminal or some person who does not have the rights to enter into the U.S.
So, we have been working, of course, with the Department of State on this very issue as they collect the fingerprints for those people who are issued visas. And of course, this applies to the people who come to our country under the Visa Waiver Program, the 27 countries who don't have to have a visa if they're coming here for pleasure or for business. As I said, though, the secret to these successes really is the fact that biometrics don't change, that you can change the name, you can change the date of birth, you can find or perhaps procure a passport on the black market, but your fingerprints are what your fingerprints are and those can't be changed.
By adding this process to the visitors departure process, we'll have a faster and more accurate way to determine who has departed the U.S. and who has remained here illegally. So, biometric exit procedures will enable DHS to more effectively enforce our immigration laws and ultimately ensure the integrity of our immigration system. The fact is the 9/11 Commission and the Congress - 9/11 Commission recommended, the Congress mandated that we would have biometric exit procedures in place. And most recently, in the 9/11 implementation bill, they said that you should have this in place and, in fact, if we don't have an exit system in place with biometrics by June of 2009, then the Secretary would lose his or her authority to expand the Visa Waiver Program.
Now, putting biometrics for the departure process does have its challenges. I think, as you all know, as you all have traveled internationally, when you depart the U.S., there is no departure control process. There's no passport control that one goes through much like you have in Europe and in Asia. And so we need to use the existing infrastructure that we have out there.
The US-VISIT program did conduct some exit pilots using biometrics for a couple of years. And what we found is that the technology worked very well. In fact, we could match the fingerprints from exit with the fingerprints from entry at a 99 percentile exact match rate. The problem was compliance was low. And compliance was low because people couldn't find the various devices that we had out in the 12 airports that we piloted this program out. The kiosks that we use, and sometimes mobile devices - and in the case of the kiosks, they were difficult to find in the airport.
And so when we found out that the technology worked well, the travelers' experience was different. They go through three main processes when you leave the country. It's generally at a check-in counter or a kiosk, through TSA, and then at the gate. So we determined that the exit process had to be part of the travelers' continuum. You had to make it easy for the people to comply with - with the rules. And so that's why we are proposing that the airlines and the cruise lines do the collection for us.
The airline business, the transportation industry are in the business of moving people efficiently and effectively. And so, therefore, to make the laws easy to comply with on the passengers' side and to make sure that we have the most effective system, that we can utilize the infrastructure that is there with the airline industry, with the cruise line industry, so that as the people depart the U.S., they can biometrically verify their departures.
We have - excuse me, to protect the privacy of the international visitors, we, of course, will publish very strict guidelines as to how the fingerprints are taken, when they're transmitted, and what they can do with those fingerprints. So the airlines will collect the information for us. There will be strict guidelines as to how those fingerprints are used.
We have begun the 60-day comment period and we welcome feedback. In fact, we invite feedback. We want people to comment on our proposed rule of having the airlines and the cruise lines collect the information for us. We want them to comment on our financial calculations as far as what this would cost the transportation industry. We want comments on how this would affect the operations. And so that is why we have these notices of proposed rulemaking, is to invite public comment on how we can do this in the most effective way possible.
Now, following the public comment period, we will then, of course, take those comments and we will adopt, potentially modify accordingly, as appropriate, the rule and then publish the final rule, which we hope to have out by January of 2009. But once again, let me make clear that this does not change the current procedures. Visitors should be handing over their I-94 and complying with all the other procedures that one would normally as they leave the country.
I have to say that this is a - this publication is another version of our outreach that we'll constantly do. We want to make sure that the public is aware of what US-VISIT is doing, how this affects their travel. We, of course, welcome travelers to the United States. It's good to note that travel and tourism is up again in numbers that meet the time before 2001. So, people are still coming to the U.S. We want them to. We want to have the most effective process for them to come into the U.S. and now leaving the U.S.
These will, of course, help us meet our four goals. They are: To enhance the security of our citizens and our visitors; to facilitate legitimate travel and trade; number three, to ensure the integrity of the immigration system; and lastly, very importantly, to protect the privacy of our visitors. These goals are not mutually exclusive. We remain committed to achieving all of those goals as we prepare to implement biometric exit procedures.
I want to thank you for joining us here today to stay up to date on this proposed rule and other US-VISIT initiatives. Please sign up to receive our email updates and you can do this by sending an email to subscribeUSVISIT, one word, subscribeUSVISIT@dhs.gov. And that way, you'll have all the latest information about the program and certainly about the new exit notification that we are talking about this morning.
And so now, I'll be happy to take your questions.
QUESTION: After 9/11, many people were scared of entering the U.S., like you said, as a visitor now up - which countries now, do you think more - they are facing - that still, they are not visiting the U.S. as far as the - after the 9/11?
MR. MOCNY: I don't know of a particular country that's not coming to the U.S. I just know that as I travel around the world, people are understanding of what it means to biometrically record one's entry, and now, as we're announcing, eventually one's exit.
I note that the UK has adopted very similar procedures, too, of the U.S. I note the EU will begin doing this process in May of 2009. I note that Japan announced their biometric entry procedures in November of 2007. And so, I think the world has understood the -- and seen the power of biometrics as it both protects and provides an extra measure of security, allows people's identities to be protected, but also has - allows for the efficient flow of individuals. So across the world, I don't know if there's an individual country that has not recognized those features of this new procedure.
QUESTION: One more question. There are some agents in here and in - let's say in India. They make promises for green cards and jobs and all that. And they charge them like as much as $20,000, because one case was, I think, 372 people in (inaudible) court, I believe. And also around 4,500 people were protesting at the Indian Embassy two weeks ago. And about 100, they went inside and met with ambassador and all that. They were charged -- about 20,000 people. They were like skilled workers. And the same thing goes for the human trafficking, like prostitution and all those -- women and girls are brought in on all those many promises.
But when they come here, they don't even get food to eat, a place to stay, like, worse than sweatshops. So what do you do with those people? I met about 89 of them at the Indian Embassy outside. They were protesting. And many are like that, and they are saying we must be -- we may be here as much as - as many as maybe 10,000 of them like this, in different categories and on the promise of H1B and green card and all that. So what do you do all those people? Because they are nowhere now and they are -- they can't go back. They cannot stay here. They have no money and no job that they were promised and given. They are are skilled workers.
MR. MOCNY: I appreciate the question. It's certainly not completely tied to what we're -
QUESTION: (Off-mike.)
MR. MOCNY: Sure.
QUESTION: And I don't know if you have heard from the Indian Embassy or not, but they are not telling anything. I asked them, actually. They said that we are in touch with I don't know who at the State Department or what.
MR. MOCNY: Yeah. I haven't heard from the Indian Embassy. Let me just state that we -- of course, we deplore any act of human smuggling; women, children, or anybody for that matter, and for anybody to be so fooled into a promise of green card here in the U.S., only to be then abused by these individuals.
What I can say is that -- and this is, again, the power of the biometrics and the power of the information-sharing that we get with Interpol, is that if we have the fingerprints and the biometric data of these people who are doing the smuggling, who then often use fake passports and fake names to try and get through the system, that we'll identify them. And we have in many, many ways already. So it is setting up regimes in place to prevent those issues from happening, identifying those people who were perpetrators of these terrible crimes, and help us find that out.
You often can't do that unless you have the biometric information, because they do try to hide behind the veil of anonymity, to hide behind false passports and documents. That's how they ply their trade. That's why biometrics helps them identify them easily. And so we hope to continue to deploy those systems.
QUESTION: Just a quick follow-up. How can you help these people if they come to you, now they don't want to come to the -- an immigration or ICE or to the State Department because they think that, first, they will be deported because they don't have any passports or anything at this time because they are kept by the people who brought them in? And is there any help?
MR. MOCNY: Perhaps it's a topic -- we're getting a little bit away from certainly my area, so that might be something you might want to address to - in another venue here.
MODERATOR: We'll take the question and give you an answer tomorrow.
MR. MOCNY: Sure.
QUESTION: World Business Press Online. I have a question. You told us that you want to collect more biometric information by entry to the United States, but also while exiting.
MR. MOCNY: Correct.
QUESTION: And can you give us the number or the date when the exit - or will be finished when -- the tourists, after entering the United States, have to be collected also by exiting? Can you give us the date or - and what time it will be ready for the United States?
MR. MOCNY: Yeah. I can't give you a specific date. Again, the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, it's the NPRM process, it's where we get comment period, that's going to last for 60 days. So between now and, I think, June 23rd, we'll take in comments from across the world. So anybody in this room, the American public, can comment on the effects of this particular rule, what it means.
Once we get those comments, we then work very hard to incorporate those comments as appropriate. And then we publish a final rule and then a final rule probably published some time, we hope, before January. And by January, then there's also an implementation time that the airlines, because they have to buy this equipment, they have to adjust their systems, so they're going to have to make some modifications. And so we're going to hear from the airlines and they're going to tell us what it's going to take to get this done, how much it might cost them. And then we'll have to work with them on that. So there is a bit of a back-and-forth and what we call a give-and-take here which allows us to hear from them and then adjust accordingly. So I can't give you an exact date.
What I do know is that the Congress has said if we don't have a biometric air exit system in place by June of 2009, then the Secretary loses his or her authority to then modify the Visa Waiver Program and add new countries to it. So the goal to shoot for would be not later than June of 2009.
QUESTION: Okay. So, June 2009, we can count and two ways. After entering, you'll be collecting or checking also by exiting? Because my question is that this year, in the spring, many countries like Slovakia or Czech Republic signed a memorandum of understanding, which means that the countries which already have - are in a visa system, it will be cancelled. And one of the condition is that the United States wants to secure the borders more while entering and also exiting a country. So, if this will be in June 2009, will it slow the process of cancelling the visa system for countries like Slovakia, Czech Republic, Hungary and other countries?
MR. MOCNY: We hope not. Obviously, we enter these agreements with -
QUESTION: So much influence, these --
MR. MOCNY: Well, we hope not. Again, we - the goal is to honor the memorandum of understanding that we've entered into. The President has spoken about wanting to expand the number of countries in the Visa Waiver Program, adding to want - wanting to add security to that process. The Secretary recently signed additional MOUs with other countries.
So, we want to be able to expand the Visa Waiver countries. And we're now working with the Congress to meet that requirement of trying to have that air exit system in place. And that's why we're announcing today that we're proposing to have the existing infrastructure be used, the airline industry, because we believe that's the quickest way to get to that particular date.
QUESTION: Okay. Thank you.
QUESTION: When the foreign national - when this goes into effect and the foreign nationals leave the country -- a rather mundane question -- but does this add to the departure time? For example, if we know we're at the airport three hours early, will we have to be at the airport four or five hours early to accommodate this additional security measure?
MR. MOCNY: We don't think so. Again, this is all part of what we'll hear in a comment period. We -- I will state that we had deployed the devices that we're requiring the airlines to use to ten ports of entry. We start that in November of 2009. The capture process can be as fast as two and a half seconds. That's the technical capture of the print.
What we're not going to do is send any message back to the airline, so there's no - there's no transmission time at that time. There's no response back that the airlines have to wait for. There's nothing back that says this person shouldn't board a plane. It's simply the capture of the fingerprints, we're saying, of one hand, so four fingers on a glass platen. That process should take anywhere from two and a half seconds to potentially 10 seconds. So, no, I don't think this is going to add any time. You'll hear that, I think. I think you'll hear from people it's going to add to the delay times. But our experience, to date, is that it should not at all.
QUESTION: And may I ask another question?
MR. MOCNY: Sure.
QUESTION: And I apologize. I'm Alyson Curcio with ARD German TV.
MR. MOCNY: Hi, Allison.
QUESTION: Who is going to - have any decisions been made yet about who ultimately will pay for this? Will it be only the airlines? Will it be only the federal government? Will it be some sort of combination? And what about the foreign airlines? Are they - do they - will they cut - do they use this comment period to say, you know, my airline is in Germany, I don't want to be paying for the United States to do security checks? Do you - so --
MR. MOCNY: Sure, I understand the question. No ultimate decision has been made because this is a proposed rule. It's not a final rule. So the final rule will then dictate exactly what those procedures are. So the proposed rule simply says the U.S. Government has -- is proposing that this is the solution and that the airlines shall pay for it and that -- here are the operational consequences or not.
And so now, that's our study. Now, American people and foreign as well -- and foreign airlines, please comment on that. Look it our rule. Look at our -- and it's a rather lengthy rule. It's a rather lengthy regulatory impact assessment that talks about a lot of financial calculations. We want people to pore over that and say, did we get it right, were we off the mark by this much, by that much, and then we'll take those comments and we'll adjust accordingly because a lot of the data that we had to gather is sometimes system-wide data or industry-wide data, and so we may have to refine that according to that.
At the end of the day, we will publish a final rule and it will then prescribe exactly what procedures are in place. If it is like the proposed rule, then that foreign carrier who is carrying people out of the country, or any -- an American carrier -- has a requirement to provide information. And if we so require that that information includes biometrics, in this case, the stamp of one hand, then they'll have to do that to comply with the immigration and the regulations that these very regulated companies fall under.
And so it is a process and a cost of doing business. It is much like they do today. And I think it's important to note that the airlines today provide very -- a great deal of information to the U.S. Government. So when people fly into the country, they're provided the manifest information of all people on that plane. They have to and are required to provide all departure biographic data when they depart the U.S.
So there are many ways in which the airlines cooperate today. What we're asking for and what we're proposing in this particular rule is the addition of this information on the hand to be part of that manifest and provide that as part of the departure process. So it will be a requirement if it meets the current proposed rule and the airlines will then comply with that.
QUESTION: Thank you.
MR. MOCNY: Yes, sir.
QUESTION: You mentioned that the -- this procedure will not take any time when you are exiting. My question - my name - sorry, my name is Talha Gibriel from Asharq Al-Awsat newspaper. My question -- when we are entering, according to my personal experience, it takes us some hours to make these procedures. So I don't know if it will take the same time, like when you are entering, you are exiting at the same time, so that, according to the question of my colleague, it will -- you have to go to the airport maybe two hours or three hours before?
MR. MOCNY: Right. The entry procedures and exit procedures are two completely different processes. When you queue up, and of course, you know, it's the good and the bad, right? There's lots of people in line because lots of people are coming back to the U.S., so that's a good thing, but now you have to wait in line. I understand that. I do, too.
But the entry procedures require you to meet certain qualifications, and so as you're queuing up and then you get in front of the CBP officer -- you all do, I do -- you have to answer certain questions: Are you eligible? Are you a U.S. citizen? Are you a foreign national? Why are you coming to the U.S.? How long are you going to stay? Do you have enough money? All those kind of questions and answers go to your eligibility to be admissible to the U.S. or not.
So there's a process. It generally takes about a minute to two, sometimes three, there to go through that process of answering questions and then taking the biometric and taking the photograph, waiting for that response back because we take those fingerprints and run them against a watchlist of some 4.1 million people who are wanted and known criminals and suspected terrorists. So that whole process doesn't apply to the exit.
What we're proposing is -- and to simplify that process, we're saying as part of the check-in process -- and it's also another important note to make here, we're not telling the airlines where to do this. If you want to do it at the check-in counter, you can do it there. If you want to design a kiosk to accept a fingerprint, you can do it there. If you want to do it at the gate when the people are actually getting onboard the plane, you can do it there, too. We're not dictating the place where the prints are taken. We're saying you're the experts at moving people from the parking lot to overseas; you find the most effective way, the quickest way and most efficient way to do this. And oh, by the way, all we want is this information right here, the slap of one hand. We're not asking for any other questions to be asked. We're not waiting for a response to go back to the check-in person or to the kiosk or to the gate agent. We're simply saying collect this information as part of the manifest and then send that to us. And oh, by the way, you don't have to send it to us right away; you have up to 24 hours to get that information to us. So if transmission times are cheaper at 3 a.m. in the morning, then use that time. Batch it up together, wait until the end of the day, and then send it all at once.
So I think what we've recognized in this proposed rule and in the proposed solution is that efficiency of operation so that people aren't held up for departing and that it will be much different, not even close to the process that you enter the country by.
Yes, sir.
QUESTION: My name is Daniel Anyz with Czech daily Hospodarske Noviny. I have a follow-up question. What about -- because from the first comment I read Secretary Chertoff in the paper, it was quite obvious that the airlines are not happy at all. So what about if you will have tough time to persuade them to do it because they are quite stretched in the procedures they have already at airport?
And the other question I have, there was a Congress -- a Senate hearing a couple weeks ago, and when Under Secretary Richard Barth. And it was quite obvious there is some misunderstanding between how the law was read in the department and how Senate did and Feinstein -- and Feinstein writes quite harsh questions there. And in fact, then I was told that she was thinking about amendment which would put a ban on expanding this. So I wonder whether you have any follow-up.
MR. MOCNY: Well, I certainly can't comment on any congressional actions that might take place because of this NPRM. That's always possible. I think it's important to note that we work with the airlines on a day-to-day basis, on a very regular basis, and they've been great partners with us in many different respects. So, as I stated earlier, they give us information for incoming passengers, they give us information for outgoing passengers. They - they accept the paper I-94 and that's what we're still asking people to still turn that departure form - that departure portion of the I-94 back to the airline employee when you check in or when you get to the gate. They act as our agents in that respect and they give us the information at the end of the day.
So, and at the same time, I've heard those complaints. I've heard they're pushed back. They say they're cash-strapped and that they aren't going to be able to do this, that it's an inherently government job. That's the beauty of the Administrative Procedures Act under which this Notice of Proposed Rulemaking follows. The government propose - excuse me, proposes something and then we get the input from the American people and the airline industry themselves and their lawyers and everybody else. And so they'll tell us why they can't do it or why they shouldn't do it.
We'll, again, accept - take those comments, you know, look through them and then - and then we'll comment on those. We'll say here's why we think that comment, you know, is appropriate and so we modify it accordingly, or here's why it's not and we haven't modified it accordingly. But that's the process that we have here in the United States. It's a very good one. And it lets people who are going to be affected by the rule have their say. So we'll hear from them and I think we can make the argument that, as I said earlier, they do act as agents for the U.S. Government by - in some ways by collecting forms for us, by providing data for us. They are a regulated industry. And sure, they're going to - they're going to push back some, but I think in the end, we'll have an effective system given their ideas, given everybody else's ideas, put it into the mix, working with the Congress, obviously, and very closely with them. So this is the process by which we make, hopefully, the best decisions getting input from all factors.
Okay. Yes, sir.
QUESTION: I have a question, please. Usually, when we exit now, we make - we have sort of an interview with an immigration agent at the airport. I don't know whether the others - they do, but for myself, my passport, I have to go to the immigration to have a lot of questions to answer. And now, added this procedure. So it takes time and when you come - also, the same thing, although - although I am a resident here. But they do the same procedure coming in, do the same procedure and getting out - I mean, everything the same procedure. And now this is an additional procedure is - for us to have to do it. So it will take time. I am - and I'm sorry I have to say it will take time. Definitely, it will take time.
MR. MOCNY: Well, there are certain individuals who have to go through another process, called the National Security Entry-Exit Registration System, or NSEERS. And those rules still apply and that's a big - that's a long, long acronym there. And there are procedures that those individuals have to follow and where they have to provide additional information. That was instituted post 9/11, for a variety of security reasons, and that program is maintained until this day. Again, the announcement today doesn't change that.
What I can say is that those programs like that where we have this, you know, extra information, won't go away - and I can't it's going to go away because of this procedure. Alls I can say is that it wouldn't go away if we didn't have it.
The fact that we don't have departure control in the United States. We don't have an effective way of knowing, for sure, if someone's left the country. Names change, people use different passports inbound and outbound. They'll be dual citizens, so they'll use different passports. And so we have to have first an effective entry and exit process for people so that we can know for sure that that's the person who's really checking out.
Once we have that, once we get a little bit better control of our immigration rules for people departing the country, then we can begin to look at some of these other programs to find a more - most effective way of doing that. But certainly, I think those are the kind of comments we're looking for in this process here. So that very personal issue that you raised should be one of, hopefully, many comments that talk about how we're doing these new exit procedures and how that effects the other programs that we had to put in place after 9/11.
QUESTION: One more quick one.
MR. MOCNY: Sure.
QUESTION: As far as this biometrics is concerned is exit and entry, is for foreigners or also for the U.S. residents or green card holders?
MR. MOCNY: No. This is for non-U.S. citizens only.
QUESTION: Oh.
MR. MOCNY: So only non-U.S. citizens.
QUESTION: And second, what kind of arrangement are you making or have you discussed with India as far as this new system, Indian airlines or also India on visa waiver with 27 countries? Or more countries are coming, you think?
MR. MOCNY: Well, certainly there are many countries who want to be part of the Visa Waiver Program. It's a great convenience factor - a convenience factor for those countries, but not all countries qualify. So there are certain statutory requirements that apply for countries to qualify. Our outreach to India is certainly - we're doing it today. And we'll continue to do that and we'll continue to make ourselves available in many different venues to make sure we get that word out, especially as we proceed into the final rule, because this is the time when we want to have as many comments as possible. It's the final rule that becomes important for us to then get the message out, here's what we've decided collectively, here's the absolute rule, here's what these foreign carriers and U.S. carriers are going to have to comply with. And so it's going to be our job and certainly will be -- our goal is to get out there and talk to people about, okay, now what is that procedure and where are you supposed to check out and what does that mean, because we want to make it easy for people to comply with the law and we'll do that through venues such as this and through others as well.
QUESTION: As a journalist, this is a quick question, please.
MR. MOCNY: Sure.
QUESTION: Are you - if there is any - you mean - I mean, something to do for the journalists who are already accredit like us here in the country, so that - to make it easy for them to enter the - I mean, not to exit the country and to come back?
MR. MOCNY: Well, I think I've heard your question correctly. The Custom Border Protection did announce recently the Global Entry Program where they're going to have - they're going to begin to experiment with registered traveler - International Registered Traveler Programs. And right now it's going to apply to U.S. citizens and they'll have to look at how they expand that program in the future.
But I think we're always looking for ways to make the entry process and, of course, the exit process as efficient and as easy as possible, notwithstanding that we have some security measures that we have to put in place. So we don't want to just open the borders. We have to make sure that we have effective questioning, and the CPB officers do a terrific job every single day in making sure that the people that we're letting into this country are legitimate and are going to, again, protect the security of our citizens and our visitors.
And so those entry procedures will remain somewhat strident, but we're looking for the most effective way of doing that. And if there are new technologies that we can use, if there are - again, through the use of biometrics by validating who that person really is, perhaps we can make our ports of entry so efficient that the hour wait that you normally experience here might go down by a dramatic amount. So we're always looking for ways to improve the process and we're going to continue to do so both inbound and outbound.
QUESTION: Okay. Thank you.
MR. MOCNY: Thank you very much.
Another question?
QUESTION: Could I just ask you -
MR. MOCNY: Sure.
QUESTION: -- that acronym you gave for the National Security --
MR. MOCNY: SecurityEntry-Exit Registration System, N-S-E-E-R-S, NSEERS.
QUESTION: May I just ask quickly about --
MR. MOCNY: Sure.
QUESTION: -- biographical data. This is -- you are collecting already now, so --
MR. MOCNY: Today, yes.
QUESTION: Yeah. And is it -- do you have now this - can you confirm this 97 percent that you know, at least, people coming and leaving through airports? Is it --
MR. MOCNY: We're not there yet, but that's the goal. Absolutely, yeah.
QUESTION: Because this is one of the conditions for the visa wavier.
MR. MOCNY: Yes. And we're aware of that, yeah.
Okay. Thank you very much.
